Archived posting to the Leica Users Group, 2006/09/15

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Subject: [Leica] Re: BW modes
From: leicachris at (Christopher Williams)
Date: Fri Sep 15 08:11:41 2006
References: <000001c6d8c5$e64ada60$6501a8c0@asus930><00f001c6d8d0$b6f38e50$0a01a8c0@MacPhisto> <>

Simply converting a color image to BW sucks. Too many levels, curves to work
with getting a good BW out of a color image. If I had a BW RAW to deal with,
I'd already have custom curves ready to work with the images. Saves at least
one step for me. That's allot of saving IMO.

That's the problem I think now. Too many crap tools! Perhaps actually having
a digital image that you do not have to sharpen is a start? Even sharp prime
lenses need sharpening.

I'd take that motorized SP and beat the shite out of that Rebel.


----- Original Message -----
From: "Don Dory" <>
To: "Leica Users Group" <>
Sent: Friday, September 15, 2006 10:01 AM
Subject: Re: [Leica] Re: BW modes

> Come on Chris,
> This would work fine if "convert to grayscale" made you happy.  Or if you
> simply desaturated your images which is the same thing as a B&W imaging
> would do. In fairness this is not entirely correct wrt pixel density and
> ability to see finer detail.
> Face it, many images work better if you apply a little filtration as you
> convert to B&W.  And you are still going to adjust levels, curves,
> a little dodging or burning so maybe you would only spend 2.5 hours
> your images up to your standards.  Last, as expensive as you are per hour,
> it is still cheaper than sending 50 rolls of film to the lab.
> We are never happy, photographers have more tools that are better than
> have ever been and still we grump.  Sometime pick up a motorised SP from
> late fifties and compare that with a lowly film Rebel.  Size, weight,
> framing rate, available lenses, TTL flash capability, and metering are all
> much better today for less money even before inflation.  But hey, you
> at least buy a F1.1 lens for your Nikon then.
> Don
> On 9/15/06, Christopher Williams <> wrote:
> >
> > I'd love to have full BW RAW mode, no color converting at all. Save even
> > more time when I'm dealing with 800-1600 images from a wedding. Now that
> > we're getting into even more megapixel's in cameras, anything to speed
> > processing. Try converting 500 or more color RAW images to BW jpeg on a
> > D1x
> > with 10mp interpolation on!
> >
> > Also I hate that clients just consider "well, you can just change it to
> > later right?". I want the BW capture first! I want Neopan 1600 in a 10mp
> > camera GD!
> >
> > There was talk from Leica on a BW only digital M. Special limited
> > matte chrome Bresson Digital BW M8.5 camera, only $9999
> >
> > Chris
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "G Hopkinson"
> > Subject: RE: [Leica] Re BW modes
> >
> >
> > > B.D., yes, got that you were championing original RAW capture.
> > > I understand and agree from my limited knowledge.
> > > I've only played with a couple of RAW files (from a D70 user) as an
> > educational exercise, but is it not only adding a channel mix
> > > choice to the workflow? Meanwhile still preserving all of the RGB info
> > as
> > options?
> > > Maybe I'm being too simplistic, but is the sensor capture
> > not b/w, with filters/alterations applied to produce the
> > > three channels?
> > > I can't see that actually being commercially viable to pursue but I
> > see b/w as a minority output choice, being most versatile
> > > coming from the three channels. Maybe I'm just overly b/w from colour
> > scan
> > fixated?
> > > I really want to understand better.
> > > All knowledge is golden, someone wise said.
> > >
> > > Cheers
> > > Hoppy
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Leica Users Group.
> > See for more information
> >
> _______________________________________________
> Leica Users Group.
> See for more information

Replies: Reply from hoppyman at (G Hopkinson) ([Leica] Re: BW modes)
In reply to: Message from hoppyman at (G Hopkinson) ([Leica] Re BW modes)
Message from leicachris at (Christopher Williams) ([Leica] Re: BW modes)
Message from don.dory at (Don Dory) ([Leica] Re: BW modes)