[Leica] developers for BW negs to scan

[hoppyman at bigpond.net.au (G Hopkinson)]

Thanks Daniel, Don & Craig for your contributions. 
I've got a grasp of the XTOL issues, and would give it a try if readily
available to me.
I was also interested to try Ilford's DDX but haven't located in stock here,
thus far. Ditto for anything more exotic (for here).
HC110 is an option. I have LC29 on hand but had been given a horror report
on it by another local user I correspond with.
With all of it, my thinking is that I need to reduce the variables as much
as possible and have by no means explored options with ID11 thus far
(dilutions) Also not productive to find a dream combo but not be able to
source it reliably or conveniently.
It seems as though the longer development with dilution may well have
validity. The thinking being that more gentle negatives will work well with
scanning (with its some loss of range) Scanning is a whole other pursuit to
master which suits my computer interests as well. I have just profiled my
Nikon coolscan for Velvia & Astia and am very happy to have another aspect
of colour management under control.
 
I'm enjoying the rediscovery of darkroom basics after a very long absence
and also, very much, the community spirit of the LUG. I hope to post some
results of these adventures soon.

Thanks again folks.
Hoppy


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Message: 12
Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2006 13:00:11 +1000
From: "G Hopkinson" <hoppyman@bigpond.net.au>
Subject: [Leica] developers for BW negs to scan
To: <lug@leica-users.org>
Message-ID: <000001c695a7$fa46aa50$6401a8c0@asus930>
Content-Type: text/plain;       charset="us-ascii"

Folks I have read with interest some discussion on the perils of XTOL
storage and am also in the throes of getting back into BW via developing
then scan etc for print via inkjet.
I am using primarily Ilford films and am playing thus far with FP4, HP5 &
the Delta 100 & 400s.
Locally I have available ID11 (which I believe is identical to D76) and much
of Kodak's powder based developers (and no XTOL).
Someone suggested in a previous thread that diluted options were popular
when the negs were to end up being scanned.

As best as I understand it, using the diluted versions (1:1 or more) may
help with tonal range and shadow detail where my aim is to scan the negs for
printing.
I would appreciate it if anyone could offer advice from their experience on
what has worked for them in this situation.
Thus far I have used ID11 at full strength (and one shot). Mainly I have
shot the 400ISOs in the first couple of rolls and the grain was rather more
prominent than I had expected.
I imagine that the Delta 100 will improve that. Specifically I'd like to try
some BW portraits next.
I do have a preference to use the Ilford range, both film and chemicals, in
that they are a dedicated BW source worthy of support.
Kodak are still on my less favoured traders list, having dropped so much BW
here and my favourite HD200 CN film!
However I am very willing to listen to your recommendations from the Kodak
range. Virtually everything else is unobtainable here (or at least difficult
and not routinely stocked)

Thanks for your expertise

Cheers

Hoppy
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Message: 14
Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2006 05:16:19 +0200
From: "Daniel Ridings" <dlridings@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Leica] developers for BW negs to scan
To: "Leica Users Group" <lug@leica-users.org>
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        <a2f8f4470606212016k623d5cd7ocd5b21ef156d6fd6@mail.gmail.com>
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Just shoot and develop as you normally would. You might find that you
want thinner negatives for scanning, but that can be accomplished with
any film/dev combination.

I do as you describe: film capture, scan, inkjet prints.

I can't think of any particular combination that is inherently better
than another. I do tend to stick to the readily available stuff.

Don't worry about "Xtol failures." They are in the vast majority of
cases, "operator failures". But you don't have Xtol anyway.

ID11 will do fine, of course. I too found Delta 400 to be grainier
than what I expected (and I'm not particularly sensitive to grain).
You didn't mention Ilford's DD-X (liquid). It might work with Delta
better than ID11. I don't know. I gave up on Delta. Another Ilford
developer is their HC-110 eqivalent (LC29 or something like that).
Also nice, but ID11 is still a good bet.

The diluted options being better for scanning? I never thought of it that
way.

But as I started ... just shoot and develop as you always do. It's
working out your own routines and habits that counts.

Daniel


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Message: 16
Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2006 23:28:09 -0400
From: "Don Dory" <don.dory@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Leica] developers for BW negs to scan
To: "Leica Users Group" <lug@leica-users.org>
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        <9b678e0606212028m6d3b6ad3i867354a739d382a2@mail.gmail.com>
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Hoppy,
Generally, if you choose to use a D-76 type developer you will achieve a
better ratio of sharpness to grain diluting it 1:1 or possibly 1:2.
Currently, as developers become even more cult like than they have before,
staying with an old stand by like D-76 has much to be said for it.  Most
films will achieve a good outcome as D-76 is the defacto world standard.

I would tell you that I have used Xtol since it came out and have had no
failures but then I usually follow the guidelines.  What Xtol provides is a
higher film speed, longer tonal curve(especially diluted at least 1:2) with
fine crisp grain compared to D-76.  For me, it works as well for old school
films as well as the tab grained films.

There are a lot of developers out there, but I would standardise on
something that either will be available (like D-76) or be prepared to mix it
yourself from base chemicals.  Other old faithfuls that come to mind are
HC-110 and Rodinal.  Each has strengths and weaknesses that only you can
determine if the balance works for you.

As to fine grain slower films, try Acros, Tmax 100, and Delta 100.  I have
found Acros in Xtol to capture some really long tonal curves at the expense
of a rather long development time.  I also like Pan F and the last APX100
which has a unique look that I will miss.

Long term, my advice is to look at prints, find a group that especially
stand out for you on a technical plane, and find out what film/developer was
used then work out a technique that gives you negatives that you like.  For
example, I have to run PanF for 15% longer times than suggested to get
negatives that scan well for me.  Last, stay with one film and developer
combination until you feel that you understand what happens when you adjust
the exposure/time/dilution/agitation quartet.  The last thing that you want
to do is hop around different films/developers/dilutions without coming to
understand what happens under your conditions.  You will never know if it
was a mistake or poor results.

Last, like most things photographic, until you have the craft down well,
there will be no large benefit to straying off the standard materials beaten
path.  Only when you have a process down pat and truly understand and can
predict what will happen when you change conditions will trying all kinds of
different techniques or combinations of materials be of real benefit.  One
caveat is that if you truly hate the look of Tri-X then switch films early
on as you do want to enjoy your work.

Have a great time in the dark.

Don
don.dory@gmail.com


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Message: 18
Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2006 22:41:42 -0500
From: Craig Schroeder <craig@craigschroeder.com>
Subject: Re: [Leica] developers for BW negs to scan
To: Leica Users Group <lug@leica-users.org>
Message-ID: <449A1176.6000705@craigschroeder.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed

I fumbled around with a number of things while learning the ins and outs 
of scanning my black & white negatives.  When I switched to PyroCat HD 
and some similar home brews most of my scanning struggles went away.  I 
was able to get good shadow detail and controlled highlights in my 
scans.  I don't own a high grade scanner (a Canon 9950F) but it's quite 
capable for what I use it for and perhaps some of my issues were related 
to machine limitations.  FP4+ and HP5+ work especially well and give me 
easy-to-scan/ink print and easy-to-print negatives for traditional 
darkroom work.  The grain masking effect of the developer smoothed out 
my scans but the edge effects of this style of developer bring back the 
snap where it matters.