Archived posting to the Leica Users Group, 2006/04/14

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Subject: [Leica] Was Foot Washing, Now Abrahamic Faiths
From: bquinn at sgi.com (Bernard Quinn)
Date: Fri Apr 14 20:35:48 2006

BD,

I think that I need to say something in reply to your comments, though I
am quite reluctant to for several reasons, not the least of which is
that I have no talent or taste for this kind of argument. However, I
made myself a promise, and I am going to keep it.

I am no longer willing to simply leave the field open for the right,
religious or otherwise, to run rampant and do or say whatever they wish,
unopposed. I am no longer willing to have what I believe to be correct
and proper abused and bashed by rhetorical devices and sophistry from
either the right or the left. 

I profoundly disagree with what that Bishop said. The reason I do is
this. The only people at the foot or the cross when Jesus was crucified
were women, and some Roman soldiers. His male followers were no where in
sight. Surely this act of political courage on the part of the women in
Jesuses life entitles all women to have their feet washed, just as they
came to the place where Jesus was buried Easter morning to wash his
body. We are all, male and female created in the image and likeness of
God. Women have feet. If men are entitled to have their feet washed,
then so are women. I will tell you, as a theologian, that the Bishop is
just plain wrong. He is wrong on the facts. He is wrong on the history.
He is wrong on the theology. You may call it what you will. I call it
bigotry. The traditional argument in favor of the Bishop's position is
that Jesus and the disciples were male, therefore women get excluded.
There are few arguments I find less convincing. Women were part of his
ministry, too. Excluding women is just plain wrong.

Pleeze, BD, to use one of your favorite expressions, don't create a
situation where you get on people's case for calling a Bishop who
excludes women from a foot washing ceremony bigoted and then write a
post asking when people will figure out that the catholic church is male
dominated and anti-women. 

I have no doubt that this Bishop feels that he is right, and that he
feels he is doing the right thing. The fact that he feels his actions
are supported by scripture doesn't mean that they are. Scripture has
been used to justify many wrong headed and atrocious acts.  You know
that. It's been used to justify the crusades, support the inquisition,
and it has been used to justify killing Jews. All of these were just
plain wrong. It is just as wrong to exclude women, and worse to use
scripture to justify it. 

If Jesus was truly the son of God then Mary, his mother, surely has to
be the daughter of God. I see no basis for assuming that a God who loves
us all equally would only wash the feet of men. As Brian pointed out
earlier today, the ceremony of the washing of feet is a lesson and
exercise in humility. To exclude women, in my view, is a profound act of
arrogance.

Barney


-----Original Message-----
From: lug-bounces+bquinn=sgi.com@leica-users.org
[mailto:lug-bounces+bquinn=sgi.com@leica-users.org] On Behalf Of B. D.
Colen
Sent: Friday, April 14, 2006 5:07 PM
To: Leica Users Group
Subject: Re: [Leica] Was Foot Washing, Now Abrahamic Faiths

Good Lord, Barney - the man's a "bigot" or "intolerant" because he
doesn't
believe that according to scripture women should wash feet? How do you
figure that? 

On 4/14/06 2:13 PM, "Barney Quinn" <bquinn@sgi.com> wrote:

> 
> 
> Nice shot. And good for the priest. His arthritis clearly isn't as
> advanced as mine is! :-)
> 
> I had sending you an e-mail on my list of things I wanted to get done
> today. Last night on our local PBS station, WETA, they had a two hour
> program about the Abrhamic Faiths. Have you seen it? It's mostly a
dozen
> or so interviews with world class theologians, clergy, authors, and
> professors and believers taking about relations between Christians,
> Muslims, and Jews. It's basically a "talking head" program, but they
cut
> from speaker to speaker so that it seemed to be a round table
> discussion. It was, in my opinion, well edited, and it moved along. I
> found the program to be very interested and I was naughty. I stayed up
> past my bed time to see it through to its conclusion.
> 
> As I was watching the program i was reminded of you and your "Faiths
of
> Abraham" ( I hope that I have that right ) project. Is this TV show
> related to it? I found myself rather encouraged by the end of the
> program. I went to bed thinking that perhaps there was some hope,
after
> all. That's a good thing. Hope is as good a single word description of
> Easter as any other. Then I read your post this morning and all but
> wept. I say this as a Cradle Irish Catholic. Perhaps progress is one
> step back and two forward. One of the things they did on the program
> last night was to ask Jews, Muslims, and Christians what they didn't
> like people to say about them. The Christians said they didn't like it
> when people called them intolerant or bigots. I spent a moment or two
> wondering about where that came from. the Bishop of Charlottesville
has
> answered my question. How sad. All of us on the  LUG who pray might
want
> to pray for him.
> 
> Barney
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tina Manley wrote:
> 
>> PESO:
>> 
>> A Catholic priest in Our Lady of Guadalupe Parish washes the feet of
>> 12 selected men during Holy Thursday observances.  Bishop Peter Jugis
>> of the Roman Catholic Diocese of Charlotte reminded priests that only
>> men's feet could be washed during the Holy Thursday services, causing
>> controversy among many this Lenten season.
>> 
>> http://www.pbase.com/tinamanley/image/58629339/medium
>> 
>> Thanks for comments, etc.
>> 
>> Tina
>> 
>> Tina Manley, ASMP
>> http://www.tinamanley.com
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> Leica Users Group.
>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information
> 
> --
> Barney Quinn, Jr.
> (301) 688-1982 (O)
> (240) 535-3036 (C)
> (877) 220-0981 (P)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Leica Users Group.
> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information



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Replies: Reply from walt at waltjohnson.com (Walt Johnson) ([Leica] Was Foot Washing, Now Abrahamic Faiths)