Archived posting to the Leica Users Group, 2006/04/15
[Author Prev] [Author Next] [Thread Prev] [Thread Next] [Author Index] [Topic Index] [Home] [Search]B.D. and Barney: Can we put superstitions and mysticisms behind us and return to more substantial fare, e.g. aesthetics? Remember please, when religion becomes illegal, only illegals will be religious. Walt Bernard Quinn wrote: >BD, > >I think that I need to say something in reply to your comments, though I >am quite reluctant to for several reasons, not the least of which is >that I have no talent or taste for this kind of argument. However, I >made myself a promise, and I am going to keep it. > >I am no longer willing to simply leave the field open for the right, >religious or otherwise, to run rampant and do or say whatever they wish, >unopposed. I am no longer willing to have what I believe to be correct >and proper abused and bashed by rhetorical devices and sophistry from >either the right or the left. > >I profoundly disagree with what that Bishop said. The reason I do is >this. The only people at the foot or the cross when Jesus was crucified >were women, and some Roman soldiers. His male followers were no where in >sight. Surely this act of political courage on the part of the women in >Jesuses life entitles all women to have their feet washed, just as they >came to the place where Jesus was buried Easter morning to wash his >body. We are all, male and female created in the image and likeness of >God. Women have feet. If men are entitled to have their feet washed, >then so are women. I will tell you, as a theologian, that the Bishop is >just plain wrong. He is wrong on the facts. He is wrong on the history. >He is wrong on the theology. You may call it what you will. I call it >bigotry. The traditional argument in favor of the Bishop's position is >that Jesus and the disciples were male, therefore women get excluded. >There are few arguments I find less convincing. Women were part of his >ministry, too. Excluding women is just plain wrong. > >Pleeze, BD, to use one of your favorite expressions, don't create a >situation where you get on people's case for calling a Bishop who >excludes women from a foot washing ceremony bigoted and then write a >post asking when people will figure out that the catholic church is male >dominated and anti-women. > >I have no doubt that this Bishop feels that he is right, and that he >feels he is doing the right thing. The fact that he feels his actions >are supported by scripture doesn't mean that they are. Scripture has >been used to justify many wrong headed and atrocious acts. You know >that. It's been used to justify the crusades, support the inquisition, >and it has been used to justify killing Jews. All of these were just >plain wrong. It is just as wrong to exclude women, and worse to use >scripture to justify it. > >If Jesus was truly the son of God then Mary, his mother, surely has to >be the daughter of God. I see no basis for assuming that a God who loves >us all equally would only wash the feet of men. As Brian pointed out >earlier today, the ceremony of the washing of feet is a lesson and >exercise in humility. To exclude women, in my view, is a profound act of >arrogance. > >Barney > > >-----Original Message----- >From: lug-bounces+bquinn=sgi.com@leica-users.org >[mailto:lug-bounces+bquinn=sgi.com@leica-users.org] On Behalf Of B. D. >Colen >Sent: Friday, April 14, 2006 5:07 PM >To: Leica Users Group >Subject: Re: [Leica] Was Foot Washing, Now Abrahamic Faiths > >Good Lord, Barney - the man's a "bigot" or "intolerant" because he >doesn't >believe that according to scripture women should wash feet? How do you >figure that? > >On 4/14/06 2:13 PM, "Barney Quinn" <bquinn@sgi.com> wrote: > > > >>Nice shot. And good for the priest. His arthritis clearly isn't as >>advanced as mine is! :-) >> >>I had sending you an e-mail on my list of things I wanted to get done >>today. Last night on our local PBS station, WETA, they had a two hour >>program about the Abrhamic Faiths. Have you seen it? It's mostly a >> >> >dozen > > >>or so interviews with world class theologians, clergy, authors, and >>professors and believers taking about relations between Christians, >>Muslims, and Jews. It's basically a "talking head" program, but they >> >> >cut > > >>from speaker to speaker so that it seemed to be a round table >>discussion. It was, in my opinion, well edited, and it moved along. I >>found the program to be very interested and I was naughty. I stayed up >>past my bed time to see it through to its conclusion. >> >>As I was watching the program i was reminded of you and your "Faiths >> >> >of > > >>Abraham" ( I hope that I have that right ) project. Is this TV show >>related to it? I found myself rather encouraged by the end of the >>program. I went to bed thinking that perhaps there was some hope, >> >> >after > > >>all. That's a good thing. Hope is as good a single word description of >>Easter as any other. Then I read your post this morning and all but >>wept. I say this as a Cradle Irish Catholic. Perhaps progress is one >>step back and two forward. One of the things they did on the program >>last night was to ask Jews, Muslims, and Christians what they didn't >>like people to say about them. The Christians said they didn't like it >>when people called them intolerant or bigots. I spent a moment or two >>wondering about where that came from. the Bishop of Charlottesville >> >> >has > > >>answered my question. How sad. All of us on the LUG who pray might >> >> >want > > >>to pray for him. >> >>Barney >> >> >> >> >>Tina Manley wrote: >> >> >> >>>PESO: >>> >>>A Catholic priest in Our Lady of Guadalupe Parish washes the feet of >>>12 selected men during Holy Thursday observances. Bishop Peter Jugis >>>of the Roman Catholic Diocese of Charlotte reminded priests that only >>>men's feet could be washed during the Holy Thursday services, causing >>>controversy among many this Lenten season. >>> >>>http://www.pbase.com/tinamanley/image/58629339/medium >>> >>>Thanks for comments, etc. >>> >>>Tina >>> >>>Tina Manley, ASMP >>>http://www.tinamanley.com >>> >>>_______________________________________________ >>>Leica Users Group. >>>See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information >>> >>> >>-- >>Barney Quinn, Jr. >>(301) 688-1982 (O) >>(240) 535-3036 (C) >>(877) 220-0981 (P) >> >> >> >> >>_______________________________________________ >>Leica Users Group. >>See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information >> >> > > > >_______________________________________________ >Leica Users Group. >See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information > > >_______________________________________________ >Leica Users Group. >See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information > > > >