Archived posting to the Leica Users Group, 2005/11/11

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Subject: [Leica] RE: Digital FIBER Prints
From: richard-lists at imagecraft.com (Richard)
Date: Fri Nov 11 23:38:10 2005
References: <200511110710.jAB7A7VW030057@server1.waverley.reid.org> <BF9A696F.1E6E6%mark@rabinergroup.com>

Probably old news to some, but http://www.butzi.net Paul Butzi apparently 
is moving to digital printing big time and he has an article on his site 
about going off the "Silver Standard" with Inkjet printing....

At 03:29 PM 11/11/2005, Mark wrote:

>I got to typing here. I type more than I shoot. Like Ansel.
>
>The predominate idea in darkroom black and white serious printing for a half
>a century had been as we are saying Glossy ferrotype (F) paper dried down to
>a golden semi gloss almost mat naturally.
>NOT ferrotyped to look like a real glossy as glass surface which the paper
>was you'd think primarily intended for..
>Something Bauhaus about Ferrotype though maybe they did it. On very cold
>black paper maybe.
>How much longer it took them to come out with that prebath to make such
>ferrotyping a much more a sure even bet and not the crapshoot it was quite a
>while A huge amount of paper was not recycled because of little
>imperfections in the obnoxious gloss.
>
>In my college darkroom there was a big ferrotype drum thing constantly
>revolving in the darkroom lobby with that pre ferrotype solution right next
>to it and a squeegee glass with squeegee.. You had the option of putting the
>print NOT facing the drum but the semi contaminated canvas and this would
>really give you a not gloss service but not dried down either. And you'd get
>that flavor from the contaminated  canvas baked for freshness. Often you'd
>get an imprint of the canvas on the surface of the fried print if you were
>sloppy with your squeegee. I remember all this amazing.
>
>Ilford GALLERY was the first paper to save us from the silver scam scandal
>in the late 70's when all the papers went down the tubes silver wise with
>the exception of Agfa Portriga which was unfashionably warm which we'd try
>to counter chemically. And slow.  And cost just a little bit more. But
>silver rich making we thought for a rich black.
>They other companies realized after Gallery people would pay a few more
>bucks or more for some non chinsey paper and it became by the end of the
>80's a Renaissance of black and white paper paper options. I bet better then
>the 50's with those papers made by Dupont and all those companies you'd not
>think. Betty Crocker.
>Knock knock Varigram!
>
>RC papers may be as archival as fiber right now.
>But the feel is not there in your hands and the SURFACE is not there.
>SURFACE SURFACE SURFACE!!  (Avedon??)
>
>They vainly try to duplicate fiber dry down with some fine texture
>imprinting embossing and it's just not the same thing. Its a different
>thing. Like Apples and Asparagus.
>Pearl is the RC version of our beloved fiber dry down fiber. For Ilford.
>Which I think dominates the smarter market.
>
>I hung a show once behind glass as typical and I last minute made some RC
>prints for some of them the idea being I'd make them wait a week while I
>reprinted it with fiber if anyone bought a print.
>Or they'd exhume my casket and yell at me. That was the glossy RC stuff.
>Which I hate even more than the Pearl II. But behind the glass no one knew.
>Gloss behind glass. Who knew!?!
>It was Ilford Multigrade so it was the exact same emulsion as the fiber.
>Even the subtle print color matched up.  And the plastic pages in a
>portfolio sure hides any objectionable surface as well as feel.
>Mat doesn't not even come into the picture in darkroom work it dries down a
>grade softer and at least on stop or more darker. It's blackest black is a
>grey card. But otherwise just fine. They don't even use it for hand coloring
>like it says on the box.
>Mat and Art both are not with us having gone over the top into a hail of
>machine fire. But live on in practically every other of the dozen
>"alternate" photo processes including inkjet. Which are not "alternate" to
>the people who use them.
>Soon it will be silver gelatin which will be called a viable alternate to
>inkjet. In case you need a strangely high degree of detail which you see
>with a loupe.
>It may sound bad and have a bad ring to it but inkjet is a very big deal in
>the development of photographic processes. A plural. It's an explosion. I'm
>in on it. Like the invention of the silver gelatin process itself which came
>32 years after photography was invented with the first Daguerreotype.
>1839 minus 1871.
>Which happens to be the amount of time I've been printing myself. And which
>seems like a long time.
>
>Why are we still using the silver gelatin process?
>Its well known to not match the more major modern Platinum Print.
>It's a scandal!
>
>Taking the easy way out with this high tech enlarger filter garbage.
>
>Mark Rabiner
>Photography
>Portland Oregon
>http://rabinergroup.com/
>
>
>
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>Leica Users Group.
>See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information

// richard (This email is for mailing lists. To reach me directly, please 
use richard at imagecraft.com) 


Replies: Reply from jonathan at openhealth.org (Jonathan Borden) ([Leica] RE: Digital FIBER Prints)
In reply to: Message from puff11 at comcast.net (Norm Aubin) ([Leica] RE: Digital FIBER Prints)
Message from mark at rabinergroup.com (Mark Rabiner) ([Leica] RE: Digital FIBER Prints)