Archived posting to the Leica Users Group, 2005/06/13
[Author Prev] [Author Next] [Thread Prev] [Thread Next] [Author Index] [Topic Index] [Home] [Search]Well, I imagine that many of the photogs of days of yore were using the best equipment/lenses available to them (or to their budgets). As for taking pictures and photo aesthetics, sure - to me, I suppose great light trumps subject (PJ aside) trumps gear. Or something like that. I guess I should have summarized EP as "...won't care..." instead of "...won't notice...." But so what? After what I perceive to be a many decades long mad dash toward better and better optics - a good fast 50, better coatings and flare control, decent wides with minimum distortion, ever better corner-to-corner resolution, nuance such as the color rendition of Zeiss lenses and coatings, better contrast - blah blah and on and on and on. Why in the hell should such a quest end now? Why should we believe that photogs shouldn't or don't really care anymore? Because Canon/Nikon are doing well pushing the umpteenth version of the moderate wide-to-short tele "fast" f2.8 zoom? Is it because a lens designed for and built to tight tolerances is too pricey to sell at Best Buy or even the local "pro photo" shop with today's labor prices? Who knows? Not a rhetorical question. I'm too young and too young to the hobby to have lived first hand through these decades of photo progress. But I'm always truly curious when quality criteria in an industry and among its customer base seem to change. Scott Stasys Petravicius wrote: > I think B.D. hit the nail on the head- getting"a meaningful image". > After taking a class in the History of Photography I came away with > that conclusion. The photogs were not using the equip that we have > available- and they made impressive images. Stasys > On Jun 13, 2005, at 7:22 AM, B. D. Colen wrote: > >> As to the comments about the company and its future and direction - >> >> >> What is really funny about the latest pronouncement from Mt. Puts is >> that >> it's simply a repeat of what a few of us have been saying on the LUG >> for the >> past 2-5 years. But of course when it's said by people on the list, it's >> negative bull shit; when it's said by Erwin Puts, it's perceived >> wisdom. :-) >> -------- >> >> As to the comments about the Canon lenses - >> It's not that photographers won't "notice," it's that real photographers >> know it just doesn't matter - what matters is getting a meaningful >> image, >> not the technical accomplishment of getting the woof and weave in the >> pants >> someone in the shot is wearing. And that's true even if one is shooting >> birds or bats or flowers - unless one is doing the shooting as part of >> scientific research. ;-) >> >> On 6/13/05 2:03 AM, "Scott McLoughlin" <scott@adrenaline.com> wrote: >> >>> Some interesting takeaways. >>> >>> Canon lenses are ok, but not nearly up to Leica snuff. Many photogs >>> "won't notice." In any case, Canon's current R&D is oriented toward >>> IS zooms where even more design compromises are the norm. >>> >>> Good PR is really important to sell products these days. The tech >>> driven companies got it, and the traditional chemistry companies >>> don't. Rings true with me. >>> >>> Leica has lacked imagination over the last 5 years. Has (had) a >>> chance to closely identify their product with the tradition of B&W >>> film photography but so far has failed to gain/increase significant >>> mindshare in the market. Sounds right to me. >>> >>> Focus on collectors and historically driven buyers alienates shooter >>> oriented potential customers. Rings very, very true to my ears. >>> >>> Digital will require partnerships because Leica doens't have enough >>> money to completely roll their own digital solutions (duh). They >>> haven't managed the existing partnerships well, in terms of >>> disitinguishing >>> their products from the partner's. >>> >>> OK. All makes sense. >>> >>> -1- Cheaper 135 format film camera. Little smaller, polycarb. A few >>> polycarb build Summicrons. This is to help strengthen Leica's mindshare >>> amoung the "traditional B&W film" crowd. Get new customers, and get >>> some of the used buyers to buy new. Also a good backup body. Smaller >>> appeals to the Leica III and CL crowd too. It's all good. >>> >>> -2- Keep making the nice traditional M's to satisfy whatever >>> marketshare is >>> out there. These things are art :-) Same for flagship build >>> lenses. Keep >>> building the best. But body R&D comes out of the digi group. >>> >>> -3- APS-C Digi M. Just gotta get one out the darn door. Please make one >>> that's sturdy polycarb and doesn't cost $6K for a friggin 6-8MP sensor, >>> when every snot nose consumer will have their eye on 10MP in just a >>> few years. Again, make it a little smaller than a current M7. Make >>> a few >>> "special edition" traditional build digi M's to keep the collectors >>> happy >>> and critics otherwise at bay. >>> >>> -4- Make a wide Tri Elmar - W3E to work on the digi M APS sensor. >>> >>> -5- Make an APS-C CM-D. Really nice 28/2 lens or thereabouts (rough >>> 40-42mm equiv.). Nice fast fixed lens, small APS-C sensor P&S with >>> great >>> high ISO performace. Zippo shutter lag. I'd buy one of these. >>> >>> -6- License a few decent flash units, at least one smaller bounce head >>> unit that works with the TTL on the CM-D and digi-M. >>> >>> -7- Hire a good PR and advertising firm in key markets. Sell the damn >>> things to new customers (yes, still a niche). Creepy LFI bable be >>> damned. >>> Small, best quality, candids, B&W film standard bearer, best optics now >>> available in the digital age. The 2nd digital camera everyone wants >>> to have >>> in their bag (SLR's are going to dominate now and for always, so >>> basically >>> skip marketing to the RF only shooter). >>> >>> Give some of the damn things away to notable photogs in exchange for >>> adverts. Have a killer Web site - Leica shooters galleries (free), >>> software >>> updates (free), forums, monthly contests, etc. I like the idea of >>> selling some >>> nicely priced rebranded Fuji or Ilford B&W products. Makes those B&W >>> film shooters feel nice and secure and taken care of. Rebrand Fuji's >>> slide processing envelopes for the chrome shooters. >>> >>> Hell, buy one of the many image editting programs out there, integrate >>> RAW processing and make it open source. Solicit end user plugins and >>> build an online database. Who knows. >>> >>> Whatever. Just some ideas. But get modern. You know, get "digital." >>> Drop the creepy, stuffy image. No more poorly translated German >>> press copy. Hell, if IBM can do it (and they sell some very high >>> priced >>> products), so can Leica. >>> >>> There. Plenty of imagination. Distinctive products. Modern. Priced >>> to sell, >>> but still premium priced compared to Canon/Nikon. Nothing so >>> gradiose that >>> it requires a Canon/Leica scale of operations. Bold enough moves to >>> entice >>> new investors. >>> >>> Now just execute. >>> >>> Scott >>> >>> David W. Almy wrote: >>> >>>> All, >>>> >>>> http://www.imx.nl/photosite/comments/c012.html >>>> http://www.imx.nl/photosite/comments/c013.html >>>> >>>> The second is of particular interest. >>>> >>>> David W. Almy >>>> Annapolis >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Leica Users Group. >>>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Leica Users Group. >>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Leica Users Group. >> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information >> > > > _______________________________________________ > Leica Users Group. > See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information