Archived posting to the Leica Users Group, 2005/04/28

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Subject: [Leica] digital transformation
From: robertmeier at usjet.net (Robert Meier)
Date: Thu Apr 28 20:07:23 2005
References: <007a01c54c06$0c8f2670$6601a8c0@ccapr.com>

BD,

I have made some B&W 7960 prints on HP's premium glossy paper, and I agree 
that they are very good.  And, yes, sometimes they could be seen as being as 
good as a good RC print.   I concede that.

Bob

> Sorry to disagree, Robert - But they are interchangeable with wet RC
> prints with similar finish. Fiber, of course not. But RC? Try showing
> someone who is not a darkroom junkie two prints side by side and they
> will have no idea which is which. My guess is either would you if you
> didn't have the paper in your hand. ;-)
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: lug-bounces+bdcolen=earthlink.net@leica-users.org
> [mailto:lug-bounces+bdcolen=earthlink.net@leica-users.org] On Behalf Of
> Robert Meier
> Sent: Thursday, April 28, 2005 11:15 AM
> To: Leica Users Group
> Subject: Re: [Leica] digital transformation
>
>
>
> Richard,
>
> Yes, I've read his praise for the 7960.   I've used that too, and while
> I
> agree that it makes prints that look good, they are not easily mistaken
> for
> wet prints.   I was only looking at RC prints.   When I compare
> fiberbase
> prints, the tilt goes even more vertiginously towards the wet prints.
>
> Bob
>
>
>> Bob, you realized that B.D. has done a test with B&W wet print vs.
> HP7960
>> B&W print and he claims the results are different but comparable
> right?
>>
>> While I don't do wet prints, my 7960 B&W do look quite gorgeous....
>>
>> At 09:38 PM 4/27/2005, you wrote:
>>
>>
>>>John,
>>>
>>>I think you have identified exactly what is most important.   I have
> just
>>>been going through a stack of B&W 8x10's of mine from the last three
>>>years, or so.   These are just first prints, or file or work prints,
> but
>>>their quality is just overwhelming -- the detail and the tonal range
> are
>>>outstanding, and I've never gotten a B&W digital print that is
> anywhere
>>>near as good.   Not from my D70 or from a scanned Leica negative, not
> even
>>>on my Epson C86 printer with the MIS carbon black and gray inks.   The
>
>>>quality of output of film cameras is just in another orbit from
> digital.
>>>Your second criterion is even more tilted in favor of film, if that is
>
>>>possible.   No digital camera has the qualities in the hand and up to
> the
>>>eye that a Leica has, or even a Hexar RF, or a Nikon FM2.   This is
> very,
>>>very important for getting a good picture in the first place.   So the
> two
>>>things go hand in hand and the result is, IMHO, much better pictures.
>>>
>>>Bob
>>>
>>>>For me two things matter: the quality of the output and the user
>>>>interface. I use M cameras because they suit the way I see period. I
> am
>>>>only loyal to Leica in that they are the only ones providing what I
> need.
>>>>99% of my output is projected slide and projected digital is just not
>
>>>>there yet quality wise. It will get there eventually and, if Leica
> comes
>>>>out with a M digital, I will seriously weigh the options. For one
> thing
>>>>present digital projectors, even with their relatively poor quality
>>>>output, are extremely expensive to buy and maintain. Sure film and
>>>>processing are expensive but have you priced out replacement bulbs
> for
>>>>digital projectors?!!
>>>>
>>>>John Collier
>>>>
>>>>On 27-Apr-05, at 8:35 PM, Don Dory wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>In the almost five years I have been participating on the LUG, there
> has
>>>>>been a rather dramatic shift in conversation.  When I first started
>>>>>paying attention, this was definitely a gear head discussion, we
> were
>>>>>very interested in Marc's book on LTM lenses, long treatises on
> small
>>>>>differences in the 50's, scotch religious wars, Tilley hats and
> more.
>>>>>
>>>>>In the last year the transformation to primarily digital has been
>>>>>profound; actual Leica discussion has dropped to a very minor part.
>>>>>Even film based discussion is a minority.
>>>>>
>>>>>I understand that for many, the tool does not matter.  Nathan, B.D.,
>>>>>Ted, Tina, Sonny, and many others have made the transition to
> digital an
>>>>>easy move.  Strangely enough, for me, the tool does matter: I get
> along
>>>>>fine with a variety of cameras and formats but an M or a SL becomes
> an
>>>>>extension of my eye more so than any other photographic tool.  While
> I
>>>>>respect the need of the professional to streamline workflow, speed
> up
>>>>>the billing process, or just plain know they have the shot in the
> bag, I
>>>>>find great joy in going over new negatives or slides; love the
>>>>>serendipity when the combination of chemistry and accident create
>>>>>wonderful images far more that looking at an LCD.
>>>>>
>>>>>So I guess what I am really wondering is, how many of us on the list
> are
>>>>>somewhat nostalgic for film, or have genuinely embraced the digital
>>>>>revolution?
>>>>>
>>>>>Don
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>_______________________________________________
>>>>Leica Users Group.
>>>>See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information
>>>
>>>
>>>_______________________________________________
>>>Leica Users Group.
>>>See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information
>>>
>>
>> // richard (This email is for mailing lists. To reach me directly,
> please
>> use richard at imagecraft.com)
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Leica Users Group.
>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information
>>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Leica Users Group.
> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information
>
>
> _______________________________________________
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> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information
> 



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