[Leica] Nathan's PAD 31/1/2015: the human face of the crisis

Mon Feb 2 03:39:37 PST 2015

Frank said "As a person who has almost always had dealings with honest, 
trustworthy people". I have to say wearing my ex-banker's hat that I found 
during the tiger years that a significant number of customers deliberately 
misstated their income and assets when they were going for loans. Equally, 
many bankers turned a blind eye to this veneering of balsawood with 
mahogany, and blithely handed out the money to meet their own impossible 
growth targets. So what if they got a Holga with a Leica red dot, they 
should show their superiors the camera and say "See it is a Leica! It has a 
red dot...", and their backs were covered.

Douglas

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Frank Dernie" <Frank.Dernie at btinternet.com>
To: "Leica Users Group" <lug at leica-users.org>
Sent: Monday, February 02, 2015 11:02 AM
Subject: Re: [Leica] Nathan's PAD 31/1/2015: the human face of the crisis

>I understand that a net worth of £500,000 (about $800,000) puts one in the 
>top 1% richest people in the world.
> This, of course neglects to take into consideration what money can buy in 
> different countries, but it means most home owners with paid off mortgage 
> in London are part of the 1% in effect.
>
> I have always thought the concept of “caveat emptor” was a thieves 
> charter/conmans dream, in as much as effectively the law is saying that if 
> you have dealt with a thief, or other criminal, and you did not notice 
> yourself that they were criminals that the loss is your own fault.
> As a person who has almost always had dealings with honest, trustworthy 
> people I find the idea that Caveat emptor could be a legal defence 
> hateful. But that is just me!
> cheers,
> Frank D.
>
>
>> On 2 Feb, 2015, at 04:07, Jayanand Govindaraj <jayanand at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> Nathan,
>> The fact that the bank managers were criminals does not mean that the
>> borrowers were not ignorant, gullible fools. Both are true, and the blame
>> cannot be conveniently heaped on one side of the debate. Buyer beware -
>> always! Our guilty sympathy always makes us take the side of the weaker
>> party, but that is not always justified, either from a moral or a legal
>> standpoint, it is just convenient for our mental well being. For example,
>> in this forum there is a lot of noise about the 1% now and then. Have you
>> realized that someone making minimum wage in Europe/USA is probably in 
>> the
>> top 5-10% of income earners worldwide, on the same statistical basis that
>> is used to calculate the 1%?
>> Cheers
>> Jayanand
>>
>> On Sun, Feb 1, 2015 at 10:41 PM, Nathan Wajsman <photo at frozenlight.eu>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Just to clarify: I do not know the borrowers in question personally, I
>>> just read about them in the paper and went down to have a look.
>>>
>>> As for the culpability of banks vs. the couple—they were both in steady
>>> employment and kept up the payments for 5 years before they got into
>>> trouble due to unemployment. Not uncommon here in Spain in recent years.
>>> The bank gains nothing except bad publicity out of this, legal basis
>>> notwithstanding.
>>>
>>> Finally: what galls people is indeed that many bank managers in Spain 
>>> were
>>> indeed criminals, enriching themselves at the expense of customers,
>>> shareholders, and society. Until very recently, they seem to have gotten
>>> away with murder, but fortunately cases are now being brought. I am not
>>> talking about bad judgement, I am talking about criminal conduct. In
>>> general, the finance sector in Spain is at least as corrupt as the
>>> government.
>>>
>>> Cheers,
>>> Nathan
>>>
>>> Nathan Wajsman
>>>
>>> Alicante, Spain
>>> http://www.frozenlight.eu
>>> http://www.greatpix.eu
>>> PICTURE OF THE WEEK: http://www.fotocycle.dk/paws
>>> Blog: http://nathansmusings.wordpress.com/
>>>
>>> Cycling: http://www.crazyguyonabike.com/belgiangator
>>>
>>> YNWA
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> On 01 Feb 2015, at 17:17, Jayanand Govindaraj <jayanand at gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Nathan,
>>>> My view, also as an ex banker, and with no love lost for the industry 
>>>> as
>>> it
>>>> is today, is that banks were greedy and criminal, but the borrowers 
>>>> were
>>>> also greedy, and foolhardy to boot, to think that good times last
>>> forever.
>>>> The basis for the Law of Contract is caveat emptor (buyer beware) - and
>>> the
>>>> borrower is forever the buyer. In the case you have outlined, from a
>>> legal
>>>> standpoint, a cursory analysis tells me that the banks have a legal 
>>>> basis
>>>> for what they have done. Your friends and the parents seem to have got
>>> very
>>>> bad advice when taking out the loan.
>>>> Cheers
>>>> Jayanand
>>>>
>>>> On Sun, Feb 1, 2015 at 1:56 PM, Nathan Wajsman <photo at frozenlight.eu>
>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Sonia and Paco are a young couple with two small daughters. Some years
>>>>> ago, when both had jobs, they bought a home, worked, and made their
>>>>> mortgage payments without any problems for 5 years. Then the crisis 
>>>>> hit,
>>>>> Spain’s unemployment rate soared to 25%, and both of them lost their
>>> jobs.
>>>>> After some months, they were unable to make the mortgage payments and
>>> the
>>>>> bank foreclosed on them. But because of the fall in property prices,
>>> their
>>>>> debt exceeded the value of the house, and so the bank is trying to
>>> collect
>>>>> the remaining debt of 35,000 EUR by garnishing part of Sonia’s parents’
>>>>> pension—they had co-guaranteed the loan when the mortgage was taken 
>>>>> out.
>>>>> The couple and their daughters now live with Sonia’s parents, but with
>>> the
>>>>> bank’s demands the entire family is on the verge of falling into 
>>>>> extreme
>>>>> poverty. Supported by a local NGO that campaigns against the banks’
>>>>> predatory practices, they have set up a camp outside the BBVA branch
>>> next
>>>>> to the Mercado Central. I went there yesterday to have a look and a 
>>>>> chat
>>>>> and to document it. They have now been there for 28 days. Their demand
>>> is
>>>>> that the bank stop garnishing Sonia’s parents’ pension.
>>>>>
>>>>> Two snaps. First, the overall view of the encampment:
>>>>> <
>>>>>
>>> http://www.greatpix.eu/All/Picture-A-Day/4253606_kdsZ6C#!i=3853988458&k=3zcKkQz&lb=1&s=O
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> People signing the petition in support of Sonia and Paco and in 
>>>>> general
>>>>> demanding that the law be changed so that the debt is extinguished 
>>>>> once
>>> the
>>>>> house is taken by the bank:
>>>>> <
>>>>>
>>> http://www.greatpix.eu/All/Picture-A-Day/4253606_kdsZ6C#!i=3853988612&k=GJs77dK&lb=1&s=O
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> And yes, I signed also. I am no populist but the banks ARE greedy
>>>>> bastards. Just this week, 78 executives of another bank have been
>>> charged
>>>>> with fraud—they had been given “black credit cards” by the bank which
>>> they
>>>>> could use freely, and of course this little fringe benefit was never
>>>>> declared to the tax authorities.
>>>>>
>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>> Nathan
>>>>>
>>>>> Nathan Wajsman
>>>>> Alicante, Spain
>>>>> http://www.frozenlight.eu <http://www.frozenlight.eu/>
>>>>> http:// <http://www.greatpix.eu/>www.greatpix.eu
>>>>> PICTURE OF THE WEEK: http://www.fotocycle.dk/paws <
>>>>> http://www.fotocycle.dk/paws>Blog: 
>>>>> http://nathansmusings.wordpress.com/
>>> <
>>>>> http://nathansmusings.wordpress.com/>
>>>>> Cycling: http://www.crazyguyonabike.com/belgiangator <
>>>>> http://www.crazyguyonabike.com/belgiangator>
>>>>> YNWA
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Leica Users Group.
>>>>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information
>>>>
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