[Leica] Nathan's PAD 31/1/2015: the human face of the crisis

Mon Feb 2 03:02:40 PST 2015

I understand that a net worth of £500,000 (about $800,000) puts one in the top 1% richest people in the world.
This, of course neglects to take into consideration what money can buy in different countries, but it means most home owners with paid off mortgage in London are part of the 1% in effect.

I have always thought the concept of “caveat emptor” was a thieves charter/conmans dream, in as much as effectively the law is saying that if you have dealt with a thief, or other criminal, and you did not notice yourself that they were criminals that the loss is your own fault.
As a person who has almost always had dealings with honest, trustworthy people I find the idea that Caveat emptor could be a legal defence hateful. But that is just me!
cheers,
Frank D.

> On 2 Feb, 2015, at 04:07, Jayanand Govindaraj <jayanand at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> Nathan,
> The fact that the bank managers were criminals does not mean that the
> borrowers were not ignorant, gullible fools. Both are true, and the blame
> cannot be conveniently heaped on one side of the debate. Buyer beware -
> always! Our guilty sympathy always makes us take the side of the weaker
> party, but that is not always justified, either from a moral or a legal
> standpoint, it is just convenient for our mental well being. For example,
> in this forum there is a lot of noise about the 1% now and then. Have you
> realized that someone making minimum wage in Europe/USA is probably in the
> top 5-10% of income earners worldwide, on the same statistical basis that
> is used to calculate the 1%?
> Cheers
> Jayanand
> 
> On Sun, Feb 1, 2015 at 10:41 PM, Nathan Wajsman <photo at frozenlight.eu>
> wrote:
> 
>> Just to clarify: I do not know the borrowers in question personally, I
>> just read about them in the paper and went down to have a look.
>> 
>> As for the culpability of banks vs. the couple—they were both in steady
>> employment and kept up the payments for 5 years before they got into
>> trouble due to unemployment. Not uncommon here in Spain in recent years.
>> The bank gains nothing except bad publicity out of this, legal basis
>> notwithstanding.
>> 
>> Finally: what galls people is indeed that many bank managers in Spain were
>> indeed criminals, enriching themselves at the expense of customers,
>> shareholders, and society. Until very recently, they seem to have gotten
>> away with murder, but fortunately cases are now being brought. I am not
>> talking about bad judgement, I am talking about criminal conduct. In
>> general, the finance sector in Spain is at least as corrupt as the
>> government.
>> 
>> Cheers,
>> Nathan
>> 
>> Nathan Wajsman
>> 
>> Alicante, Spain
>> http://www.frozenlight.eu
>> http://www.greatpix.eu
>> PICTURE OF THE WEEK: http://www.fotocycle.dk/paws
>> Blog: http://nathansmusings.wordpress.com/
>> 
>> Cycling: http://www.crazyguyonabike.com/belgiangator
>> 
>> YNWA
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> On 01 Feb 2015, at 17:17, Jayanand Govindaraj <jayanand at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Nathan,
>>> My view, also as an ex banker, and with no love lost for the industry as
>> it
>>> is today, is that banks were greedy and criminal, but the borrowers were
>>> also greedy, and foolhardy to boot, to think that good times last
>> forever.
>>> The basis for the Law of Contract is caveat emptor (buyer beware) - and
>> the
>>> borrower is forever the buyer. In the case you have outlined, from a
>> legal
>>> standpoint, a cursory analysis tells me that the banks have a legal basis
>>> for what they have done. Your friends and the parents seem to have got
>> very
>>> bad advice when taking out the loan.
>>> Cheers
>>> Jayanand
>>> 
>>> On Sun, Feb 1, 2015 at 1:56 PM, Nathan Wajsman <photo at frozenlight.eu>
>> wrote:
>>> 
>>>> Sonia and Paco are a young couple with two small daughters. Some years
>>>> ago, when both had jobs, they bought a home, worked, and made their
>>>> mortgage payments without any problems for 5 years. Then the crisis hit,
>>>> Spain’s unemployment rate soared to 25%, and both of them lost their
>> jobs.
>>>> After some months, they were unable to make the mortgage payments and
>> the
>>>> bank foreclosed on them. But because of the fall in property prices,
>> their
>>>> debt exceeded the value of the house, and so the bank is trying to
>> collect
>>>> the remaining debt of 35,000 EUR by garnishing part of Sonia’s parents’
>>>> pension—they had co-guaranteed the loan when the mortgage was taken out.
>>>> The couple and their daughters now live with Sonia’s parents, but with
>> the
>>>> bank’s demands the entire family is on the verge of falling into extreme
>>>> poverty. Supported by a local NGO that campaigns against the banks’
>>>> predatory practices, they have set up a camp outside the BBVA branch
>> next
>>>> to the Mercado Central. I went there yesterday to have a look and a chat
>>>> and to document it. They have now been there for 28 days. Their demand
>> is
>>>> that the bank stop garnishing Sonia’s parents’ pension.
>>>> 
>>>> Two snaps. First, the overall view of the encampment:
>>>> <
>>>> 
>> http://www.greatpix.eu/All/Picture-A-Day/4253606_kdsZ6C#!i=3853988458&k=3zcKkQz&lb=1&s=O
>>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> People signing the petition in support of Sonia and Paco and in general
>>>> demanding that the law be changed so that the debt is extinguished once
>> the
>>>> house is taken by the bank:
>>>> <
>>>> 
>> http://www.greatpix.eu/All/Picture-A-Day/4253606_kdsZ6C#!i=3853988612&k=GJs77dK&lb=1&s=O
>>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> And yes, I signed also. I am no populist but the banks ARE greedy
>>>> bastards. Just this week, 78 executives of another bank have been
>> charged
>>>> with fraud—they had been given “black credit cards” by the bank which
>> they
>>>> could use freely, and of course this little fringe benefit was never
>>>> declared to the tax authorities.
>>>> 
>>>> Cheers,
>>>> Nathan
>>>> 
>>>> Nathan Wajsman
>>>> Alicante, Spain
>>>> http://www.frozenlight.eu <http://www.frozenlight.eu/>
>>>> http:// <http://www.greatpix.eu/>www.greatpix.eu
>>>> PICTURE OF THE WEEK: http://www.fotocycle.dk/paws <
>>>> http://www.fotocycle.dk/paws>Blog: http://nathansmusings.wordpress.com/
>> <
>>>> http://nathansmusings.wordpress.com/>
>>>> Cycling: http://www.crazyguyonabike.com/belgiangator <
>>>> http://www.crazyguyonabike.com/belgiangator>
>>>> YNWA
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
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