Archived posting to the Leica Users Group, 2012/12/09
[Author Prev] [Author Next] [Thread Prev] [Thread Next] [Author Index] [Topic Index] [Home] [Search]While it may not have been simple, the idea that it was NOT about slavery is farfetched. The states who seceeded said so distinctly. Read their resolutions of of secession. ric On Dec 9, 2012, at 11:48 PM, Phil Forrest <photo.forrest at earthlink.net> wrote: > It was never that simple and as others have said, the war was not about > slavery. This was never a clear cut war over a single issue but modern > history would have you think it was. > > Phil Forrest > > > > On Sun, 09 Dec 2012 23:08:45 -0500 > Mark Rabiner <mark at rabinergroup.com> wrote: > >> You'd want to call it from the southern standpoint the "war of >> northern aggression" rather than the war of "we were being total >> A-holes and the north had to put an end to it" aggression. >> >> Mark William Rabiner >> Photography >> http://gallery.leica-users.org/v/lugalrabs/ >> >> >>> From: Bill Larsen <von-ohlen at sbcglobal.net> >>> Reply-To: Leica Users Group <lug at leica-users.org> >>> Date: Sun, 09 Dec 2012 16:59:55 -0800 >>> To: Leica Users Group <lug at leica-users.org> >>> Subject: Re: [Leica] Desensitization >>> >>> Douglas Barry the answers you are getting here are somewhat >>> simplistic. And I am not quite knowledgeable enough to really >>> furnish any light. The term is "war of northern aggression" as >>> other have wrote is much more complex. It really wasn't about >>> slavery other than in a tangential manner. It was a civil war. >>> And like all civil war very nasty. I might point out that there >>> was not a totally uniform opinion about it in any state. Brothers >>> were pitted against brothers (and I mean in the family rather than >>> the society). States like North Carolina and Virginia had people >>> fighting in both armies. And apparently it is not a conflict that >>> has healed yet. On 12/9/2012 4:15 PM, Don Dory wrote: >>>> Ric, while slavery was the proximate cause of the war, most of the >>>> response was the truly great debate about the nature of the >>>> union. Many in the Southern States truly believed in the State >>>> first and the union second. Lee is the perfect example of one who >>>> abhorred slavery but so loved his Virginia that he declined the >>>> honor of leading the Union Armies in the invasion of Virginia. >>>> >>>> Of course political power and the wealth that flowed from that had >>>> a lot to do with the ultimate war. With Lincoln as president >>>> there was no doubt that the new states joining the union would be >>>> free states that would ultimately change the balance of power in >>>> the Senate and the House. If you were wealthy in the South, in no >>>> small part due to slavery, then the idea that the industrial >>>> northern states combined with the new states in the west could >>>> take your wealth away was worth the expenditure of thousands of >>>> lives. Of course not their own. I say that, but if you visit the >>>> University of Virginia you will see that most of the classes near >>>> the Civil War died in the war: if you could go to the University >>>> you were part of the ruling class. >>>> >>>> >>>> On Sun, Dec 9, 2012 at 7:05 PM, Don Dory <don.dory at gmail.com> >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> Ken, I just had a good friend tour the Blues sites in Mississippi >>>>> near Greenwood. Most are still there in all their grubby glory. >>>>> The Delta is a place of great poverty with pockets of vast >>>>> wealth. Good ingredients for the Blues. Most of the worst >>>>> poverty is invisible now. It doesn't mean that it isn't there >>>>> but it is poor politics to have rows of shotgun shacks with no >>>>> running water and no interior toilet facilities visible from the >>>>> road. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Sun, Dec 9, 2012 at 7:00 PM, Don Dory <don.dory at gmail.com> >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> I knew that term would draw fire. Many residents of the >>>>>> Southeastern U.S. use that term as from their perspective the >>>>>> Northern States violated the long term agreement about slavery. >>>>>> It is important when moving between cultures to understand their >>>>>> perspective on how things happened and more important the why. >>>>>> Whether it fits the facts on the ground the personal reality is >>>>>> the sum of the society, it's myths, dreams, and the origination >>>>>> stories that culture tells itself. >>>>>> >>>>>> As to the American Civil War as most know the conflict of the >>>>>> early to mid 1860's it was eighty years in the making more or >>>>>> less and proof that even know horrendous human undertakings >>>>>> require just as horrendous a response to change. My opinion is >>>>>> that is why change is so hard, the price of change is often as >>>>>> horrendous as the objected to activity. Consider the Second >>>>>> World War, we remember the Holocaust as 6 million Jews, Gypsies, >>>>>> and mental defectives being slaughtered but it took the lives of >>>>>> some 20 million Russians, 12 million Germans, half a million >>>>>> French citizens, half a million Americans, almost 600,000 >>>>>> Poles. I could go on but certainly a very high price to resolve >>>>>> European issues starting in 1914. >>>>>> >>>>>> As to the question of the pictures, if you browse the images of >>>>>> the Civil War there are a few still available of the "hospitals" >>>>>> where the only known treatment for 58 caliber bullets smashing >>>>>> bone and flesh was amputation; hence the piles of arms and >>>>>> legs. The United States suffered more deaths and injuries >>>>>> during the Civil War than it did in any other conflict: new >>>>>> estimates are at 750,000 casualties. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On Sun, Dec 9, 2012 at 6:24 PM, Tina Manley >>>>>> <images at comporium.net> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> I love the South and would miss it terribly. There are plenty >>>>>>> of us who don't fly Confederate flags, support Obama, vote >>>>>>> Democratic, and don't stereotype others. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Tina >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Sunday, December 9, 2012, Bill Pearce <billcpearce at cox.net> >>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>> Usually pronounced Wah uv Nawthen Agression, this is the term >>>>>>>> that >>>>>>> residents of the US South (Sore Loosers) use to describe the >>>>>>> American Civil >>>>>>> War. These can be, but not always are the same people that have >>>>>>> large Confederate flag decals on their pickup trucks. It is an >>>>>>> inaccurate description. President Lincoln was brilliant and far >>>>>>> seeing, and realized that if this succession was to become >>>>>>> fact, there would be no end, and what >>>>>>> is the USA would become a hodgepodge of tiny nations led by who >>>>>>> knows what. >>>>>>> There are many of us, however, who wouldn't miss the south a >>>>>>> bit. >>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- From: philippe.amard >>>>>>>> Sent: Sunday, December 09, 2012 5:10 PM >>>>>>>> To: Leica Users Group >>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Leica] Desensitization >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> could it be Vietnam? >>>>>>>> ph >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Le 9 d?c. 12 ? 23:39, Douglas Barry a ?crit : >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> "Don Dory" <don.dory at gmail.com> wrote >>>>>>>>>> nasty deaths from smallpox and ebola. Or consider the >>>>>>>>>> images from >>>>>>> the >>>>>>> War >>>>>>>>>> of Northern Aggression where there were stacks of limbs >>>>>>>>>> outside the >>>>>>> medical >>>>>>>>>> tents. >>>>>>>>> Don, as an Irishman living in Ireland and unfamiliar with >>>>>>>>> many terms >>>>>>> used in the States, what was the War of Northern Aggression? >>>>>>> Do you mean >>>>>>> the Korean War? I never saw those images. >>>>>>>>> I presume you don't mean the American Civil War as I thought >>>>>>>>> that >>>>>>> started with the Confederacy attacking Fort Sumter? Well it >>>>>>> did according >>>>>>> to all those school history books (European) I read 50 years >>>>>>> ago. >>>>>>>>> Maybe school books are different in the USA.... >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Douglas >>>>>>>>> _________ >>>>>>>>> Douglas Barry >>>>>>>>> Bray, Co. Wicklow >>>>>>>>> Republic of Ireland >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> Leica Users Group. >>>>>>>>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more >>>>>>>>> information >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> Leica Users Group. >>>>>>>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more >>>>>>>> information >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> Leica Users Group. >>>>>>>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more >>>>>>>> information >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> Tina Manley, ASMP >>>>>>> www.tinamanley.com >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> Leica Users Group. >>>>>>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more >>>>>>> information >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> Don >>>>>> don.dory at gmail.com >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> Don >>>>> don.dory at gmail.com >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Leica Users Group. >>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Leica Users Group. >> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information > > > > -- > http://philipforrestphoto.wordpress.com/ > http://gallery.leica-users.org/v/philforrest > > _______________________________________________ > Leica Users Group. > See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information