Archived posting to the Leica Users Group, 2012/12/09
[Author Prev] [Author Next] [Thread Prev] [Thread Next] [Author Index] [Topic Index] [Home] [Search]It was never that simple and as others have said, the war was not about slavery. This was never a clear cut war over a single issue but modern history would have you think it was. Phil Forrest On Sun, 09 Dec 2012 23:08:45 -0500 Mark Rabiner <mark at rabinergroup.com> wrote: > You'd want to call it from the southern standpoint the "war of > northern aggression" rather than the war of "we were being total > A-holes and the north had to put an end to it" aggression. > > Mark William Rabiner > Photography > http://gallery.leica-users.org/v/lugalrabs/ > > > > From: Bill Larsen <von-ohlen at sbcglobal.net> > > Reply-To: Leica Users Group <lug at leica-users.org> > > Date: Sun, 09 Dec 2012 16:59:55 -0800 > > To: Leica Users Group <lug at leica-users.org> > > Subject: Re: [Leica] Desensitization > > > > Douglas Barry the answers you are getting here are somewhat > > simplistic. And I am not quite knowledgeable enough to really > > furnish any light. The term is "war of northern aggression" as > > other have wrote is much more complex. It really wasn't about > > slavery other than in a tangential manner. It was a civil war. > > And like all civil war very nasty. I might point out that there > > was not a totally uniform opinion about it in any state. Brothers > > were pitted against brothers (and I mean in the family rather than > > the society). States like North Carolina and Virginia had people > > fighting in both armies. And apparently it is not a conflict that > > has healed yet. On 12/9/2012 4:15 PM, Don Dory wrote: > >> Ric, while slavery was the proximate cause of the war, most of the > >> response was the truly great debate about the nature of the > >> union. Many in the Southern States truly believed in the State > >> first and the union second. Lee is the perfect example of one who > >> abhorred slavery but so loved his Virginia that he declined the > >> honor of leading the Union Armies in the invasion of Virginia. > >> > >> Of course political power and the wealth that flowed from that had > >> a lot to do with the ultimate war. With Lincoln as president > >> there was no doubt that the new states joining the union would be > >> free states that would ultimately change the balance of power in > >> the Senate and the House. If you were wealthy in the South, in no > >> small part due to slavery, then the idea that the industrial > >> northern states combined with the new states in the west could > >> take your wealth away was worth the expenditure of thousands of > >> lives. Of course not their own. I say that, but if you visit the > >> University of Virginia you will see that most of the classes near > >> the Civil War died in the war: if you could go to the University > >> you were part of the ruling class. > >> > >> > >> On Sun, Dec 9, 2012 at 7:05 PM, Don Dory <don.dory at gmail.com> > >> wrote: > >> > >>> Ken, I just had a good friend tour the Blues sites in Mississippi > >>> near Greenwood. Most are still there in all their grubby glory. > >>> The Delta is a place of great poverty with pockets of vast > >>> wealth. Good ingredients for the Blues. Most of the worst > >>> poverty is invisible now. It doesn't mean that it isn't there > >>> but it is poor politics to have rows of shotgun shacks with no > >>> running water and no interior toilet facilities visible from the > >>> road. > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> On Sun, Dec 9, 2012 at 7:00 PM, Don Dory <don.dory at gmail.com> > >>> wrote: > >>> > >>>> I knew that term would draw fire. Many residents of the > >>>> Southeastern U.S. use that term as from their perspective the > >>>> Northern States violated the long term agreement about slavery. > >>>> It is important when moving between cultures to understand their > >>>> perspective on how things happened and more important the why. > >>>> Whether it fits the facts on the ground the personal reality is > >>>> the sum of the society, it's myths, dreams, and the origination > >>>> stories that culture tells itself. > >>>> > >>>> As to the American Civil War as most know the conflict of the > >>>> early to mid 1860's it was eighty years in the making more or > >>>> less and proof that even know horrendous human undertakings > >>>> require just as horrendous a response to change. My opinion is > >>>> that is why change is so hard, the price of change is often as > >>>> horrendous as the objected to activity. Consider the Second > >>>> World War, we remember the Holocaust as 6 million Jews, Gypsies, > >>>> and mental defectives being slaughtered but it took the lives of > >>>> some 20 million Russians, 12 million Germans, half a million > >>>> French citizens, half a million Americans, almost 600,000 > >>>> Poles. I could go on but certainly a very high price to resolve > >>>> European issues starting in 1914. > >>>> > >>>> As to the question of the pictures, if you browse the images of > >>>> the Civil War there are a few still available of the "hospitals" > >>>> where the only known treatment for 58 caliber bullets smashing > >>>> bone and flesh was amputation; hence the piles of arms and > >>>> legs. The United States suffered more deaths and injuries > >>>> during the Civil War than it did in any other conflict: new > >>>> estimates are at 750,000 casualties. > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> On Sun, Dec 9, 2012 at 6:24 PM, Tina Manley > >>>> <images at comporium.net> wrote: > >>>> > >>>>> I love the South and would miss it terribly. There are plenty > >>>>> of us who don't fly Confederate flags, support Obama, vote > >>>>> Democratic, and don't stereotype others. > >>>>> > >>>>> Tina > >>>>> > >>>>> On Sunday, December 9, 2012, Bill Pearce <billcpearce at cox.net> > >>>>> wrote: > >>>>>> Usually pronounced Wah uv Nawthen Agression, this is the term > >>>>>> that > >>>>> residents of the US South (Sore Loosers) use to describe the > >>>>> American Civil > >>>>> War. These can be, but not always are the same people that have > >>>>> large Confederate flag decals on their pickup trucks. It is an > >>>>> inaccurate description. President Lincoln was brilliant and far > >>>>> seeing, and realized that if this succession was to become > >>>>> fact, there would be no end, and what > >>>>> is the USA would become a hodgepodge of tiny nations led by who > >>>>> knows what. > >>>>> There are many of us, however, who wouldn't miss the south a > >>>>> bit. > >>>>>> -----Original Message----- From: philippe.amard > >>>>>> Sent: Sunday, December 09, 2012 5:10 PM > >>>>>> To: Leica Users Group > >>>>>> Subject: Re: [Leica] Desensitization > >>>>>> > >>>>>> could it be Vietnam? > >>>>>> ph > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Le 9 d?c. 12 ? 23:39, Douglas Barry a ?crit : > >>>>>> > >>>>>>> "Don Dory" <don.dory at gmail.com> wrote > >>>>>>>> nasty deaths from smallpox and ebola. Or consider the > >>>>>>>> images from > >>>>> the > >>>>> War > >>>>>>>> of Northern Aggression where there were stacks of limbs > >>>>>>>> outside the > >>>>> medical > >>>>>>>> tents. > >>>>>>> Don, as an Irishman living in Ireland and unfamiliar with > >>>>>>> many terms > >>>>> used in the States, what was the War of Northern Aggression? > >>>>> Do you mean > >>>>> the Korean War? I never saw those images. > >>>>>>> I presume you don't mean the American Civil War as I thought > >>>>>>> that > >>>>> started with the Confederacy attacking Fort Sumter? Well it > >>>>> did according > >>>>> to all those school history books (European) I read 50 years > >>>>> ago. > >>>>>>> Maybe school books are different in the USA.... > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> Douglas > >>>>>>> _________ > >>>>>>> Douglas Barry > >>>>>>> Bray, Co. Wicklow > >>>>>>> Republic of Ireland > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>>>>> Leica Users Group. > >>>>>>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more > >>>>>>> information > >>>>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>>>> Leica Users Group. > >>>>>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more > >>>>>> information > >>>>>> > >>>>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>>>> Leica Users Group. > >>>>>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more > >>>>>> information > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>> -- > >>>>> Tina Manley, ASMP > >>>>> www.tinamanley.com > >>>>> > >>>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>>> Leica Users Group. > >>>>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more > >>>>> information > >>>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> -- > >>>> Don > >>>> don.dory at gmail.com > >>>> > >>> > >>> > >>> -- > >>> Don > >>> don.dory at gmail.com > >>> > >> > >> > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Leica Users Group. > > See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information > > > > _______________________________________________ > Leica Users Group. > See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information -- http://philipforrestphoto.wordpress.com/ http://gallery.leica-users.org/v/philforrest