Archived posting to the Leica Users Group, 2012/08/28

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Subject: [Leica] SHOOTING B&W? - HENNING
From: henningw at archiphoto.com (Henning Wulff)
Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2012 23:04:05 -0700
References: <05b33254a058ba63caaa3158a6aa4929.squirrel@emailmg.globat.com> <1598E6D591A1437E8679487C923B2F74@syneticfeba505> <227299a76c5ac644f2a368f472376575.squirrel@emailmg.globat.com> <0300A0D88D8143DBB17C2DDE6C94C021@syneticfeba505> <DA9C3669-CFC4-439B-A85A-73517286C682@mac.com> <CA+yJO1AKA3z1vFz4Awh-ZfX9WGJ59ViQg9Dq+npzER2NyRmeyQ@mail.gmail.com> <C25F1AF5DE2B402CB29F25084B319E73@syneticfeba505> <96FC3D9D-10AB-4EA7-815B-7F02EE2F6A10@mac.com> <04066036-61CE-4C6C-8D38-D66092835630@me.com> <CA+yJO1DRR0YTaoPW7sEAFqmFHhPzz2x=vAg5Q0X1Q_PpKA6xFA@mail.gmail.com> <DF2F5D5D-E5BA-4D6E-BFD5-6BC8F6896B9B@archiphoto.com> <FEA9FAD9-2EFE-4ABC-A5BB-18F1D7EF93D1@me.com>

I think the M9 will do that as will many other comeras, but that would mean 
that the camera becomes a lot slower than it already is. I don't shoot on 
'Continuous', but even on 'Single' I often hit the buffer limit because it 
is so slow. Doing RAW plus jpeg makes everything that much slower. The best 
that I know of are the Olympus Pen cameras, which can shoot RAW but be set 
to B&W, and show B&W on the review screen. Their buffer isn't that bad 
either, but they have a lot of other problems. If you could reasonably zone 
focus them they'd be a lot better.

Henning



On 2012-08-28, at 10:54 PM, Gerry Walden wrote:

> I agree with you Henning, and for a long time I had trouble getting my 
> head around things. It is all to do with that lovely word 
> 'previsualisation'. When we first see an image we previsualise how it will 
> look as a print and make a split-second decision on whether it will be in 
> b&w or colour. We then shoot accordingly but when it pops up on the screen 
> we have to make that decision all over again and very often the decision 
> goes in the opposite direction to our original thought so we end up with a 
> mediocre colour image because we shot it as b&w (or occasionally the other 
> way around).
> 
> I have finally managed to get my head around this (I think!) but it now 
> occurs to me that one possibility, if the camera will allow, is to shoot 
> raw+jpeg but set the jpeg to b&w in your menu. That way you can just look 
> at the jpegs in the first instance by selecting only them in a program 
> like Lightroom etc.
> 
> Just my thoughts,
> 
> Gerry
> 
> Gerry Walden
> +44 (0)23 8046 3076 or
> +44 (0)797 287 7932
> www.gwpics.com
> 
> On 28 Aug 2012, at 23:11, Henning Wulff <henningw at archiphoto.com> wrote:
> 
>> I find it rather hard to shoot B&W with the regular flavour (colour) 
>> digital cameras. No matter how I think in B&W, when I chimp I still see 
>> colour, unless I shoot in jpeg and I'm not going down that route. If I 
>> see the LCD with a colour image and start getting that in my head, I have 
>> trouble taking the next picture for B&W, especially if its just a slight 
>> variation on the first.
>> 
>> The best I can do with a regular camera is with the M8 or M9; there I can 
>> just shoot, turn off the LCD and not chimp and I see through the 
>> viewfinder what I would see with any M camera loaded with B&W camera I 
>> ever had. So right now I shoot colour with the M9 and B&W with the M8; I 
>> can get my mind around that. Also, since I've always had trouble really 
>> getting my mind around shooting colour and B&W on the same day, I usually 
>> only take one or the other. 
>> 
>> When I was shooting a lot of 4x5 for assignments, clients would sometimes 
>> ask me to shoot both colour and B&W for them, and I'd have to ask which 
>> was the more important? Then I'd get into that frame of mind and bring 
>> back a good set of the primary type and a not so good set of the other. 
>> If it was medium format stuff I'd usually try to shoot one type first and 
>> then come back the next day for the other, if the budget allowed for it 
>> and everything else cooperated. Just having two cameras loaded with 
>> different film didn't give optimum results for one or the other.
>> 
>> I'm extremely tempted by the MM, and if the M10 wouldn't be announced in 
>> a month I'd probably order an MM. But I'll wait and see.
>> 
>> Henning
>> 
>> 
>> On 2012-08-27, at 2:46 PM, Tina Manley wrote:
>> 
>>> I am getting the MM for the new sensor with higher ISO performance and
>>> better resolution.  I will carry two cameras, the M9 for color and the MM
>>> for B&W, just like I did with film.  I don't see how that will hamper my
>>> success as a B&W photographer.
>>> 
>>> Tina
>>> 
>>> On Mon, Aug 27, 2012 at 5:20 PM, Gerry Walden <gerry.walden at me.com> 
>>> wrote:
>>> 
>>>> For me one of the most useful attributes of the new digital realm most 
>>>> of
>>>> us move in is that we have a black and white camera and a colour camera
>>>> built into one. What is more, we have every speed of film plus some at 
>>>> our
>>>> disposal every time we put that camera to our eye. i do not need a b&w
>>>> camera and a colour camera. I have them both in a single unit and can 
>>>> use
>>>> them accordingly. If you continue thinking of b&w as a 'spin-off' of the
>>>> colour digital camera you have slung around your neck you will never be 
>>>> a
>>>> successful b&w photographer. It would be like owning a car and only ever
>>>> using one of its gears.
>>>> 
>>>> Gerry
>>>> 
>>>> Gerry Walden
>>>> +44 (0)23 8046 3076 or
>>>> +44 (0)797 287 7932
>>>> www.gwpics.com
>>>> 
>>>> On 27 Aug 2012, at 21:54, George Lottermoser <imagist3 at mac.com> 
>>>> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> On Aug 27, 2012, at 1:28 PM, tedgrant at shaw.ca wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>>> And they look quite good! Occasionally it's nice to feel... "Well that
>>>> kinda looks like I still have the touch!" And smile inwardly! :-)
>>>>> 
>>>>> You have worked long enough
>>>>> and hard enough
>>>>> to have the soul of a photographer
>>>>> firmly and permanently installed.
>>>>> Ain't never ever go'n away.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Regards,
>>>>> George Lottermoser
>>>>> george at imagist.com
>>>>> http://www.imagist.com
>>>>> http://www.imagist.com/blog
>>>>> http://www.linkedin.com/in/imagist
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Leica Users Group.
>>>>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Leica Users Group.
>>>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> -- 
>>> Tina Manley, ASMP
>>> www.tinamanley.com
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Leica Users Group.
>>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information
>>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Henning Wulff
>> henningw at archiphoto.com
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> Leica Users Group.
>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Leica Users Group.
> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information
> 


Henning Wulff
henningw at archiphoto.com






Replies: Reply from mark at rabinergroup.com (Mark Rabiner) ([Leica] SHOOTING B&W? - HENNING)
In reply to: Message from afirkin at afirkin.com (afirkin at afirkin.com) ([Leica] G'day all)
Message from tedgrant at shaw.ca (tedgrant at shaw.ca) ([Leica] G'day all)
Message from afirkin at afirkin.com (afirkin at afirkin.com) ([Leica] G'day all)
Message from tedgrant at shaw.ca (tedgrant at shaw.ca) ([Leica] SHOOTING B&W?)
Message from imagist3 at mac.com (George Lottermoser) ([Leica] SHOOTING B&W?)
Message from images at comporium.net (Tina Manley) ([Leica] SHOOTING B&W?)
Message from tedgrant at shaw.ca (tedgrant at shaw.ca) ([Leica] SHOOTING B&W?)
Message from imagist3 at mac.com (George Lottermoser) ([Leica] SHOOTING B&W?)
Message from gerry.walden at me.com (Gerry Walden) ([Leica] SHOOTING B&W?)
Message from images at comporium.net (Tina Manley) ([Leica] SHOOTING B&W?)
Message from henningw at archiphoto.com (Henning Wulff) ([Leica] SHOOTING B&W?)
Message from gerry.walden at me.com (Gerry Walden) ([Leica] SHOOTING B&W? - HENNING)