Archived posting to the Leica Users Group, 2011/03/12

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Subject: [Leica] IMGS: check out Keith Wessel's photographs
From: richard at imagecraft.com (Richard Man)
Date: Sat, 12 Mar 2011 11:45:35 -0800
References: <38C7FB98-0C4A-4D57-BF3E-AF6432C7F390@mac.com> <4D798495.6010704@panix.com> <F1C731CE-FC27-45CA-B521-4DC41AEC8698@mac.com> <444198.62728.qm@web86707.mail.ird.yahoo.com> <1B6C17B8-E719-4380-9ADC-F217B6F687CE@mac.com> <946558.92566.qm@web86704.mail.ird.yahoo.com> <7CEC6AEC-6104-42A0-BAA1-195CABF7EDD2@mac.com> <4D7BC831.6070304@panix.com>

It took me a while to grok that money is created mainly from "economic
activities," which is akin to what you said, I think, that economics is not
the shuffling of resources from one person to another. Whether they have
intrinsic values, beyond the economic impact, is another debate :-)

Thanks for the link to the theory.

On Sat, Mar 12, 2011 at 11:23 AM, Rei Shinozuka <shino at panix.com> wrote:

> The cobb-douglas functional form is one of the neater things i learned in
> economics.
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cobb-Douglas
>
> labor and capital are the two inputs in all of the models, sometimes land
> is added as the third factor.
>
> the two or three input factors have exponents less than one, which means
> that increases will yield marginally smaller improvements to total
> production.
>
> the get out of jail card is the total factor productivity term (TFP) which
> is associated with innovation, technology and so on.  there are no
> limitations to the growth of TFP unlike the other inputs.
>
> the formulation of TFP within cobb-douglas is an illustration that
> economics is not the shuffling of resources from one person to
> another--value really does get created along the way.
>
> -rei
>
>
>
> On 03/12/2011 10:27 AM, George Lottermoser wrote:
>
>> On Mar 12, 2011, at 4:59 AM, FRANK DERNIE wrote:
>>
>>  What I do mean is that however much we want the service they
>>> provide we can not have it if our economy does not have a significant
>>> number of
>>> people in genuine wealth creating employment who are net tax
>>> contributors.
>>>
>> Frank, I do understand your underlying point re: net taxpayer.
>> Though I believe we must consider some fundamental systemic underpinnings.
>> Money = a medium of exchange as a measure of perceived value; nothing more
>> and nothing less.
>> Can't eat it. Can't build a house with it. It won't keep you warm
>> (unless you have very large quantities of small bills to burn).
>>
>>  Who are net contributors, from this perspective?
>>>
>> One could postulate that only the planet itself offers a NET contribution
>> to our existence:
>> Top soil, flora, fauna, minerals, water, oxygen, various forms of fuels,
>> etc.
>>
>> Let's assume that you, me and eight other naked human beings exist in this
>> eco-system.
>> Further let's assume that we agree to work together for our mutual
>> survival and propagation.
>> (yes - we have women among our tribe of 10). We begin to discuss our
>> "needs"
>> and agree on who will perform which tasks to accomplish our various goals
>> of:
>> building shelter, creating clothing for the coming winter,
>> gathering food, water and fuels, handle sanitation issues, etc.
>> everyone has role to play for our mutual benefit.
>>
>> "Who are net contributors, from this perspective?
>> Anyone who performs their assigned and accepted duties within the system.
>>
>> Now - what do we do when one of us wants to store and control "more"
>> food, water, and fuel than everyone else in the tribe? (s)he says it's a
>> good plan.
>> We won't have to run around looking for berries and hunting game each day.
>> So we come up with these beads (money). We bring our game, our buckets of
>> water,
>> our bushels of grain and receive beads. When we need a chicken we just
>> hand over some beads.
>>
>> The net contributors still remain: The planet; Those who hunt, gather,
>> build;
>> And now the one who stores and distributes resources.
>> The beads themselves do not contribute;
>> they function only as an agreed upon means of exchange and measure of
>> value.
>>
>> I think you know where this is going. The storage guy ends up with lots of
>> real and necessary
>> commodities; as well as a whole lot of beads; pretty soon he needs guards
>> to keep his stores safe; and several millennia later here we are.
>>
>> The "net" contributors still remain the planet, birds, bees, top soil, and
>> those who nurture it.
>>
>> We seem to have arrived at a point where we pretend the "net contributors"
>> are those who exploit,  excessively profit from, and over value their own
>> worth in the system.
>> Some even imagine that the bead exchangers deserve 5,000,000 times the
>> quality of life
>> than the human beings who pick the food for the bead exchangers' table.
>> When the bead exchangers start gaming the ecosystem - we have serious
>> problems.
>>
>>  Artists, such as yourself, who create from almost nothing valuable art
>>> which
>>> people pay for. Anybody who takes a lump of clay and makes a brick,
>>> anybody who takes a sheet of
>>> steel and makes a washing machine, anybody who takes a pile of bricks and
>>> builds
>>> a house.
>>>
>> We certainly agree on what is of true "net" value in our society.
>> Though I will add to your list - Those who pickup my garbage, plow the
>> road in front of my home,
>> stand ready to put out a fire in the community, teach my children and
>> grandchildren, etc.
>>
>>  The payment received for all these efforts is taxed and is "new" money
>>> going into the tax pot. It is this "new" money that allows us to pay for
>>> other
>>> things, not the money which circulates into and out of the tax pot. This
>>> circulation keeps people in work but is unsustainable without the "new"
>>> money
>>> since the money will dry up otherwise.
>>> If nobody is making "new" money nobody can spend it. However much we
>>> thing we
>>> "need" something.
>>>
>> Here's where we may need a lot more, research, paper and time;
>> as it becomes conceptual and philosophical.
>> The term "new" money does not ring true for me;
>> though I can certainly accept "real added value."
>> We seem to lack a basic agreement on:
>> 1) levels of equity between all the tribe members
>> 2) who contributes to the common good of one another
>> 3) ownership of the ecosystem which supports us all
>> 4) the systems of storage and distribution of the fruits of our labor.
>>
>> At this point in time I observe a tiny minority of tribe members hoarding
>> the vast wealth of nations.
>> The vast majority of tribe members who played very important roles in
>> creating that stored wealth ask for fair distribution and circulation.
>> This discussion has been going on since the first granary was built and
>> the first coin minted.
>> An open discussion must include the concepts of greed, subservience, usury
>> practices, false pretenses, and many more.
>>
>> Bottom line - who is actually interested in building a "just society?"
>>
>> Regards,
>> George Lottermoser
>> george at imagist.com
>> http://www.imagist.com
>> http://www.imagist.com/blog
>> http://www.linkedin.com/in/imagist
>>
>> _______________________________________________
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>>
>
>
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>



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// richard <http://www.imagecraft.com/>
// icc blog: <http://imagecraft.com/blog/>
// photo blog: <http://www.5pmlight.com>
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In reply to: Message from imagist3 at mac.com (George Lottermoser) ([Leica] IMGS: check out Keith Wessel's photographs)
Message from shino at panix.com (Rei Shinozuka) ([Leica] IMGS: check out Keith Wessel's photographs)
Message from imagist3 at mac.com (George Lottermoser) ([Leica] IMGS: check out Keith Wessel's photographs)
Message from frank.dernie at btinternet.com (FRANK DERNIE) ([Leica] IMGS: check out Keith Wessel's photographs)
Message from imagist3 at mac.com (George Lottermoser) ([Leica] IMGS: check out Keith Wessel's photographs)
Message from frank.dernie at btinternet.com (FRANK DERNIE) ([Leica] IMGS: check out Keith Wessel's photographs)
Message from imagist3 at mac.com (George Lottermoser) ([Leica] IMGS: check out Keith Wessel's photographs)
Message from shino at panix.com (Rei Shinozuka) ([Leica] IMGS: check out Keith Wessel's photographs)