Archived posting to the Leica Users Group, 2009/05/21

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Subject: [Leica] HIGHLY TECHNICAL QUESTION?
From: mingthein at gmail.com (Ming Thein)
Date: Fri, 22 May 2009 08:52:50 +0800
References: <200905202031.BQM08525@rg5.comporium.net> <20090521013018.IBUH8364.eastrmmtao105.cox.net@eastrmimpo03.cox.net> <200905210135.BQM37975@rg5.comporium.net> <d02ca8d32845c.4a146b3c@shaw.ca> <7ac27f4f0905201857u6c2846edtca2c4adc23ef77d0@mail.gmail.com> <1A3DF126-167F-46D0-8BF7-C43C6BFEE4A9@bex.net> <BLU0-SMTP84098B6875D77896B1C2958C590@phx.gbl> <38A9B06B-AAAA-436C-9EA7-264873DADEAC@gmail.com> <37BEA265-8BC3-42E6-B45F-7EA6C5EBF17B@cox.net>

Thank you.  And...bring it on! :)

Thein Onn Ming
Sent from my iPhone

On May 22, 2009, at 1:59, Steve Barbour <kididdoc at cox.net> wrote:

>
> On May 21, 2009, at 6:20 AM, Thein Onn Ming wrote:
>
>> The electrons liberated from  the battery into the sensor  
>> (simplified version) are probably just dissipated as heat through  
>> the electrical components. Otherwise, you wouldn't need to worry  
>> about charging a battery or amp noise...
>>
>> By the way, I'm new here. :)
>
>
> welcome Ming...and btw,
>
> this is one of the easier issues we tackle here,
>
>
> :-)
>
>
> Steve
>
>
>>
>> Cheers
>> Ming
>>
>> On May 21, 2009, at 8:49 PM, Vick Ko wrote:
>>
>>> Yes, these two answers, by Howard and Richard, are the two most  
>>> "realistic".
>>>
>>> First, there is the mechanistic answer, that the pixels are merely  
>>> the electro-magnetic storage states of the storage medium, and  
>>> deletion alters their state.  This alteration requires energy  
>>> input, and you get into the operation and physics of the  
>>> particular storage media.  And that alteration might only be the  
>>> elimination of the file definition (header) bytes, or might be the  
>>> entire overwriting of the whole pixel array to a "start state".
>>>
>>> Then, there is the "information philosophy" side, which Howard  
>>> talks about.  Where did the information represented by that "state  
>>> of the set of pixels, which might be an image", go?  Is is now  
>>> distributed into the minds and memories of all those who saw it? I  
>>> personally don't understand the hypothesis that "information is  
>>> never destroyed", but that is an indication of my lack of  
>>> understanding.
>>>
>>>
>>> ...Vick
>>>
>>> Howard Ritter wrote:
>>>> Congratulations, Dr Ted! That is actually a very subtle and  
>>>> incisive question.
>>>> The answer is rooted in quantum mechanics, information theory,  
>>>> and the notion
>>>> that information, like matter and energy, is never destroyed.  
>>>> There was a prolonged
>>>> and passionate debate in the physics community on this question.  
>>>> It was feared
>>>> initially that when matter falls into a black hole, its  
>>>> information content is lost, to
>>>> the great consternation of many physicists. It seemed as  
>>>> egregious a violation of
>>>> fundamental physics as a violation of the conservation of energy.  
>>>> But clever
>>>> insights and analysis finally saved the day. Check out The Black  
>>>> Hole War by
>>>> Leonard Susskind, or at least James Trefil's Washington Post  
>>>> review of the book at
>>>> Amazon:
>>>>
>>>> http://www.amazon.com/Black-Hole-War-Stephen-Mechanics/dp/0316016411/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1242872534&sr=8-1
>>>>
>>>> So wherever the pixels go, in some fashion their information is  
>>>> never lost to the
>>>> universe?no matter how good your memory scrubber is! The quest 
>>>> ion is, where
>>>> do the pixels go?oh, but that's what you asked, isn't it?
>>>>
>>>> That's my circular explanation.
>>>>
>>>> ?howard
>>>>
>>>> On May 20, 2009, at 9:57 PM, Richard Man wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> It goes to the bit bucket in the heaven!
>>>>>
>>>>> The pixels are stored as a file in the media, so it goes  
>>>>> wherever files go
>>>>> when you delete a file. In practical terms, under Windows,  
>>>>> normally the
>>>>> files go to the Recycling Bin so you can rescue them if needed  
>>>>> unless you
>>>>> empty the Recycling Bin. When that happens, the disk space used  
>>>>> by the file
>>>>> may be used by the system for the other files, but at the system  
>>>>> level, the
>>>>> file is stored in multiple locations and it's possible to  
>>>>> recover portion of
>>>>> the file even if the system reclaims and file and uses the  
>>>>> storage space.
>>>>>
>>>>> There are methods to more permanently delete a file involving  
>>>>> actively
>>>>> modifying all the data that the file. In the extreme case, one  
>>>>> could destroy
>>>>> the drive by removing the platters and pound it into bits...
>>>>>
>>>>> Does this help?
>>>>>
>>>>> On Wed, May 20, 2009 at 6:42 PM, TED GRANT <tedgrant at shaw.ca>  
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> I have just been asked a technical question and require an  
>>>>>> exact answer if
>>>>>> possible.
>>>>>> "WHERE DO THE PIXELS GO WHEN YOU DELETE A PICTURE?"
>>>>>> Dr. ted
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Leica Users Group.
>>>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more  
>>>> information
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Leica Users Group.
>>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information
>>
>> THEIN Onn Ming
>> *photohorologer ming at www.mingthein.com
>> www.flickr.com/mingthein
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Leica Users Group.
>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Leica Users Group.
> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information


In reply to: Message from images at comporium.net (Tina Manley) ([Leica] Cameras Banned)
Message from kcarney1 at cox.net (Ken Carney) ([Leica] Cameras Banned)
Message from images at comporium.net (Tina Manley) ([Leica] Cameras Banned)
Message from tedgrant at shaw.ca (TED GRANT) ([Leica] HIGHLY TECHNICAL QUESTION?)
Message from richard.lists at gmail.com (Richard Man) ([Leica] HIGHLY TECHNICAL QUESTION?)
Message from hlritter at bex.net (Howard Ritter) ([Leica] HIGHLY TECHNICAL QUESTION?)
Message from vick.ko at sympatico.ca (Vick Ko) ([Leica] HIGHLY TECHNICAL QUESTION?)
Message from mingthein at gmail.com (Thein Onn Ming) ([Leica] HIGHLY TECHNICAL QUESTION?)
Message from kididdoc at cox.net (Steve Barbour) ([Leica] HIGHLY TECHNICAL QUESTION?)