Archived posting to the Leica Users Group, 2006/03/21
[Author Prev] [Author Next] [Thread Prev] [Thread Next] [Author Index] [Topic Index] [Home] [Search]I agree this is really getting interesting. Thoughtful, supportive, and critical commentary from a wise old hand is essential to allowing individual creativity to flourish; to allow the individual's specific vision to emerge. The techniques are easy to teach. Encouraging personal development is not. The best mentoring will bring out only the talent that is there and finding one's own signature even with the best of teaching can take a long time. Of course, talent can grow as the individual does. Someone who could not find a personal signature at 18 might find one at 40, 50 or even later in life. Dick >Don't think so. This thread is just starting to get interesting... >One of the true questions emerged: what is true talent? And is >talent really necessary to produce personal work? >And what is the difference between personal work and differentiating >work and outstanding work... >Personnaly I like discovering the search for a signature of some on >this group the most. >Plus the knowledge that it is easier to discover the signature of >another than of his own. > > >Op 21-mrt-06, om 22:15 heeft B. D. Colen het volgende geschreven: > >>I know we should take this off-line, and probably it should be continued >>face-to-face over beer, scotch, or Diet Coke...But... >> >> >>On 3/21/06 2:32 PM, "Barney Quinn" <bquinn@sgi.com> wrote: >> >>> >>> >>>I think that people "should" try to find their own voices, develop their >>>own >>>styles, and cultivate their own vision so that it can be shared with other >>>people. >>>A bit too much like new age babble, but important none the less. >>> >>>If I understand your point it goes something like this. The Dvorak Cello >>>Concerto ( >>>actually there are two ) remains the Dvorak Cello Concerto no >>>matter who made >>>the >>>cello on which it is played. If the same cellist played it on a different >>>cello the >>>tone and color might be different, but things might be changed at >>>the level of >>>matters of taste, but not in any significant way. The work of an artist >>>transcends >>>the hardware. Do I have it anything like correct? Because I agree with >>>you. >>>You can >>>spot a piece of chamber music by Brahms from a mile away, even if you >>>aren't >>>familiar with the particular piece you are hearing, and it is nothing like >>>Beethoven's chamber music. I think that the same is true of the >>>photographic >>>masters. >> >>I have a problem with this entire line of argument, Barney, because Dvoark >>wrote his Cello Concerto, and Brahms wrote his chamber music, for other >>musicians to play them. Playing them involves interpreting them, as best >>one >>can. An inept musician, playing an inferior instrument, will turn the best >>piece of music into something painful to all within hearing range. A gifted >>musician will turn it into something sublime - and the better the >>instrument, the more sublime the interpretation will be. >> >>HCB did not create his art for others to copy or ape - he created it >>because, as an artist, he had to create it. And if he created it for an >>external reason - other than making money ;-) - he created it to be seen >>and >>enjoyed. >> >> >>I bet you could make a very accurate guess about who took a >>>particular >>>high level image, even if you hadn't seen the image before. HCB then >>>remains >>>HCB no >>>matter what kind of camera he was using, and getting to the core of what >>>his >>>work >>>is all about isn't about hardware. >>> >>>I have a question for the group which I will disguise as a question to >>>you. >>>What >>>does it mean to imitate an artist like HCB? How will you know that you >>>have >>>succeeded in the endeavor to imitate him? I'll also offer an observation >>>in >>>the >>>hope that it might generate some comment. I think that there are >>>many areas of >>>human endeavor ranging from photography to music to golf to god knows what >>>which >>>involve hardware and where you can observe exactly the same pattern. To a >>>beginner >>>the quality of the hardware used doesn't matter much. As you start >>>to learn to >>>play >>>the cello you have to struggle so hard just to learn to hold the >>>cello and get >>>the >>>bow to work that it makes no difference who made the equipment. >>>You will sound >>>equally bad no matter what. But, equipment does make a difference >>>to people in >>>the >>>mid range. You do get to a point where a decent cello can help you >>>grow and it >>>can >>>make you sound better because it isn't placing obstacles in your path >>>which >>>you >>>need to overcome. I think that the upper stages equipment ceases >>>to matter. I >>>was >>>at a master class with Yo-Yo Ma. He picked up a twenty-five hundred dollar >>>student >>>instrument so that he could demonstrate something. He sounded like he was >>>playing >>>his strad. I am sure that you and Ted and Tina could take prize winning >>>pictures >>>with a holga. >>> >>>Past a point hardware is irrelevant. >>> >>>Barney >>Thank you for putting me in such august company :-), but I'm going to >>disagree with you once again - and this disagreement may shock many on this >>list: >> >>I believe that if you give a beginner - in almost any endeavor - he or she >>will do better at the endeavor than they would with "beginner" equipment. >>Give someone trying to learn how to play the guitar a cheap, steel string >>Kay guitar, and the horrible instrument, with its rediculously high bridge, >>will get in their way, perhaps to the point where they will give up the >>guitar. Give that same person a Martin D-35, and even playing simply cords >>they will coax a wonderful sound out of the instrument - I've been there, >>done that. :-) Give a kid a cheap starter violin, and you may get an >>entirely different result than if you were insane enough to hand that same >>child a serious instrument. Give a beginning photographer a cheap camera >>with inferior optics, and you may get different results than if you give >>that same person an easy to use, well designed camera with superior optics >>- >>and I don't mean a Leica M because many beginning photographers really >>struggle with rangefinders. :-) >> >>However - give a world-class guitarist, violinist, photographer, those same >>inferior instruments, and that artist will bring all his or her well-honed >>skills to bear and eke out every smidgen of quality that lurks within the >>inferior instrument. >> >> >>> >>> >>> >>>"B. D. Colen" wrote: >>> >>>>Hi, Barney - Of course I don't think that people shouldn't try. But try >>>>to >>>>be what, and try what? >>> >>>-- >>>Barney Quinn, Jr. >>>(301) 688-1982 (O) >>>(240) 535-3036 (C) >>>(877) 220-0981 (P) >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>_______________________________________________ >>>Leica Users Group. >>>See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information >> >> >> >>_______________________________________________ >>Leica Users Group. >>See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information >> > > >_______________________________________________ >Leica Users Group. >See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information