[Leica] Lets start a Leica equipment discussion

[bdcolen at comcast.net (B. D. Colen)]

I know we should take this off-line, and probably it should be continued
face-to-face over beer, scotch, or Diet Coke...But...


On 3/21/06 2:32 PM, "Barney Quinn" <bquinn@sgi.com> wrote:

> 
> 
> I think that people "should" try to find their own voices, develop their 
> own
> styles, and cultivate their own vision so that it can be shared with other
> people.
> A bit too much like new age babble, but important none the less.
> 
> If I understand your point it goes something like this. The Dvorak Cello
> Concerto (
> actually there are two ) remains the Dvorak Cello Concerto no matter who 
> made
> the
> cello on which it is played. If the same cellist played it on a different
> cello the
> tone and color might be different, but things might be changed at the 
> level of
> matters of taste, but not in any significant way. The work of an artist
> transcends
> the hardware. Do I have it anything like correct? Because I agree with you.
> You can
> spot a piece of chamber music by Brahms from a mile away, even if you 
> aren't
> familiar with the particular piece you are hearing, and it is nothing like
> Beethoven's chamber music. I think that the same is true of the 
> photographic
> masters. 

I have a problem with this entire line of argument, Barney, because Dvoark
wrote his Cello Concerto, and Brahms wrote his chamber music, for other
musicians to play them. Playing them involves interpreting them, as best one
can. An inept musician, playing an inferior instrument, will turn the best
piece of music into something painful to all within hearing range. A gifted
musician will  turn it into something sublime - and the better the
instrument, the more sublime the interpretation will be.

HCB did not create his art for others to copy or ape - he created it
because, as an artist, he had to create it. And if he created it for an
external reason - other than making money ;-) - he created it to be seen and
enjoyed.


I bet you could make a very accurate guess about who took a
> particular
> high level image, even if you hadn't seen the image before. HCB then 
> remains
> HCB no
> matter what kind of camera he was using, and getting to the core of what 
> his
> work
> is all about isn't about hardware.
> 
> I have a question for the group which I will disguise as a question to you.
> What
> does it mean to imitate an artist like HCB? How will you know that you have
> succeeded in the endeavor to imitate him? I'll also offer an observation in
> the
> hope that it might generate some comment. I think that there are many 
> areas of
> human endeavor ranging from photography to music to golf to god knows what
> which
> involve hardware and where you can observe exactly the same pattern. To a
> beginner
> the quality of the hardware used doesn't matter much. As you start to 
> learn to
> play
> the cello you have to struggle so hard just to learn to hold the cello and 
> get
> the
> bow to work that it makes no difference who made the equipment. You will 
> sound
> equally bad no matter what. But, equipment does make a difference to 
> people in
> the
> mid range. You do get to a point where a decent cello can help you grow 
> and it
> can
> make you sound better because it isn't placing obstacles in your path which
> you
> need to overcome. I think that the upper stages equipment ceases to 
> matter. I
> was
> at a master class with Yo-Yo Ma. He picked up a twenty-five hundred dollar
> student
> instrument so that he could demonstrate something. He sounded like he was
> playing
> his strad. I am sure that you and Ted and Tina could take prize winning
> pictures
> with a holga.
> 
> Past a point hardware is irrelevant.
> 
> Barney
Thank you for putting me in such august company :-), but I'm going to
disagree with you once again - and this disagreement may shock many on this
list:

I believe that if you give a beginner - in almost any endeavor - he or she
will do better at the endeavor than they would with "beginner" equipment.
Give someone trying to learn how to play the guitar a cheap, steel string
Kay guitar, and the horrible instrument, with its rediculously high bridge,
will get in their way, perhaps to the point where they will give up the
guitar. Give that same person a Martin D-35, and even playing simply cords
they will coax a wonderful sound out of the instrument - I've been there,
done that. :-) Give a kid a cheap starter violin, and you may get an
entirely different result than if you were insane enough to hand that same
child a serious instrument. Give a beginning photographer a cheap camera
with inferior optics, and you may get different results than if you give
that same person an easy to use, well designed camera with superior optics -
and I don't mean a Leica M because many beginning photographers really
struggle with rangefinders. :-)

However - give a world-class guitarist, violinist, photographer, those same
inferior instruments, and that artist will bring all his or her well-honed
skills to bear and eke out every smidgen of quality that lurks within the
inferior instrument.


 
> 
> 
> 
> "B. D. Colen" wrote:
> 
>> Hi, Barney - Of course I don't think that people shouldn't try. But try to
>> be what, and try what?
> 
> --
> Barney Quinn, Jr.
> (301) 688-1982 (O)
> (240) 535-3036 (C)
> (877) 220-0981 (P)
> 
> 
> 
> 
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