Archived posting to the Leica Users Group, 2006/03/21
[Author Prev] [Author Next] [Thread Prev] [Thread Next] [Author Index] [Topic Index] [Home] [Search]Don't think so. This thread is just starting to get interesting... One of the true questions emerged: what is true talent? And is talent really necessary to produce personal work? And what is the difference between personal work and differentiating work and outstanding work... Personnaly I like discovering the search for a signature of some on this group the most. Plus the knowledge that it is easier to discover the signature of another than of his own. Op 21-mrt-06, om 22:15 heeft B. D. Colen het volgende geschreven: > I know we should take this off-line, and probably it should be > continued > face-to-face over beer, scotch, or Diet Coke...But... > > > On 3/21/06 2:32 PM, "Barney Quinn" <bquinn@sgi.com> wrote: > >> >> >> I think that people "should" try to find their own voices, develop >> their own >> styles, and cultivate their own vision so that it can be shared >> with other >> people. >> A bit too much like new age babble, but important none the less. >> >> If I understand your point it goes something like this. The Dvorak >> Cello >> Concerto ( >> actually there are two ) remains the Dvorak Cello Concerto no >> matter who made >> the >> cello on which it is played. If the same cellist played it on a >> different >> cello the >> tone and color might be different, but things might be changed at >> the level of >> matters of taste, but not in any significant way. The work of an >> artist >> transcends >> the hardware. Do I have it anything like correct? Because I agree >> with you. >> You can >> spot a piece of chamber music by Brahms from a mile away, even if >> you aren't >> familiar with the particular piece you are hearing, and it is >> nothing like >> Beethoven's chamber music. I think that the same is true of the >> photographic >> masters. > > I have a problem with this entire line of argument, Barney, because > Dvoark > wrote his Cello Concerto, and Brahms wrote his chamber music, for > other > musicians to play them. Playing them involves interpreting them, as > best one > can. An inept musician, playing an inferior instrument, will turn > the best > piece of music into something painful to all within hearing range. > A gifted > musician will turn it into something sublime - and the better the > instrument, the more sublime the interpretation will be. > > HCB did not create his art for others to copy or ape - he created it > because, as an artist, he had to create it. And if he created it > for an > external reason - other than making money ;-) - he created it to be > seen and > enjoyed. > > > I bet you could make a very accurate guess about who took a >> particular >> high level image, even if you hadn't seen the image before. HCB >> then remains >> HCB no >> matter what kind of camera he was using, and getting to the core >> of what his >> work >> is all about isn't about hardware. >> >> I have a question for the group which I will disguise as a >> question to you. >> What >> does it mean to imitate an artist like HCB? How will you know that >> you have >> succeeded in the endeavor to imitate him? I'll also offer an >> observation in >> the >> hope that it might generate some comment. I think that there are >> many areas of >> human endeavor ranging from photography to music to golf to god >> knows what >> which >> involve hardware and where you can observe exactly the same >> pattern. To a >> beginner >> the quality of the hardware used doesn't matter much. As you start >> to learn to >> play >> the cello you have to struggle so hard just to learn to hold the >> cello and get >> the >> bow to work that it makes no difference who made the equipment. >> You will sound >> equally bad no matter what. But, equipment does make a difference >> to people in >> the >> mid range. You do get to a point where a decent cello can help you >> grow and it >> can >> make you sound better because it isn't placing obstacles in your >> path which >> you >> need to overcome. I think that the upper stages equipment ceases >> to matter. I >> was >> at a master class with Yo-Yo Ma. He picked up a twenty-five >> hundred dollar >> student >> instrument so that he could demonstrate something. He sounded like >> he was >> playing >> his strad. I am sure that you and Ted and Tina could take prize >> winning >> pictures >> with a holga. >> >> Past a point hardware is irrelevant. >> >> Barney > Thank you for putting me in such august company :-), but I'm going to > disagree with you once again - and this disagreement may shock many > on this > list: > > I believe that if you give a beginner - in almost any endeavor - he > or she > will do better at the endeavor than they would with "beginner" > equipment. > Give someone trying to learn how to play the guitar a cheap, steel > string > Kay guitar, and the horrible instrument, with its rediculously high > bridge, > will get in their way, perhaps to the point where they will give up > the > guitar. Give that same person a Martin D-35, and even playing > simply cords > they will coax a wonderful sound out of the instrument - I've been > there, > done that. :-) Give a kid a cheap starter violin, and you may get an > entirely different result than if you were insane enough to hand > that same > child a serious instrument. Give a beginning photographer a cheap > camera > with inferior optics, and you may get different results than if you > give > that same person an easy to use, well designed camera with superior > optics - > and I don't mean a Leica M because many beginning photographers really > struggle with rangefinders. :-) > > However - give a world-class guitarist, violinist, photographer, > those same > inferior instruments, and that artist will bring all his or her > well-honed > skills to bear and eke out every smidgen of quality that lurks > within the > inferior instrument. > > > >> >> >> >> "B. D. Colen" wrote: >> >>> Hi, Barney - Of course I don't think that people shouldn't try. >>> But try to >>> be what, and try what? >> >> -- >> Barney Quinn, Jr. >> (301) 688-1982 (O) >> (240) 535-3036 (C) >> (877) 220-0981 (P) >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Leica Users Group. >> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information > > > > _______________________________________________ > Leica Users Group. > See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information >