Archived posting to the Leica Users Group, 2015/05/06

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Subject: [Leica] New M(246) Outputs 12 bit Files
From: red735i at verizon.net (Frank Filippone)
Date: Wed, 06 May 2015 10:55:12 -0700
References: <01ee01d08820$7b997550$72cc5ff0$@verizon.net> <D16FCA78.39722%mark@rabinergroup.com>

Precisely my point... look at the images.....

I have an M9.  I looked at the images created in the comparison shots.  The
M9 images, when converted to B+W were of significantly less quality in
resolution than the M246.
OTOH, we are comparing apples ( 16MP) and oranges (24MP).  Pixels, do NOT
grow on trees.  More pixels does = better fine display quality, all other
things being equal... same lens.

OTOH, if someone wants to sell their MM and go buy a M246, I am a willing
buyer......... of the inferior.

I have no intention of spending $7500 on a camera.

He says irreverently.. just like he said when he bought his M8, and M9 , and
A7.....

Frank Filippone
Red735i at verizon.net


-----Original Message-----
From: LUG [mailto:lug-bounces+red735i=verizon.net at leica-users.org] On 
Behalf
Of Mark Rabiner
Sent: Wednesday, May 06, 2015 10:41 AM
To: Leica Users Group
Subject: Re: [Leica] New M(246) Outputs 12 bit Files

I agree Frank, tahtwhat whatever bits or other specs if the camera is making
better images than the previous with supposedly better specs then its not
the specs (bits) we should be looking at but the images the camera makes and
our own bank accounts to figure out how to get it!


On 5/6/15 1:17 PM, "Frank Filippone" <red735i at verizon.net> wrote:

> Mark and others....
> 
> The issue of 12 vs 14 bits is not straight forward.....  Yes, the 
> difference in a straight line way is 4 times the data, but really that 
> means there is 4 times the GRADATION in the data.  More gradation = 
> more smooth transitions between different tones.
> 
> Assuming the saturation point ( top value) and lowest point ( pure 
> black, as in more black is just not possible) remain fixed. Then there 
> could be a bit of non linear-ness to the ADC... There may be more 
> values in the bright areas, and less in the dark areas.... still 
> achieving the same dynamic range,. But 12 bits and 14 bits could have 
> different non-linear transfer functions....  Which, in the context of 
> photography, may not be at all easy to see with the eyes.
>  
> Let me stop here... I spent the better part of my working career in 
> understanding the intricacies of ADC products.  If I go any further in the
> explanation, I will lose almost everyone.    Suffice it to say that what
we
> do not know exceeds what we do know.
> 
> Yes, there is a story out there... Yes it is important that we know 
> what that story is, in theory.  In practice, the M246 seems to produce 
> better images than the MM.... 12 bits 14 bits or some other number of
bits.
> 
> I agree with Mark.. HDD storage is so cheap that 12 vs 14 bits is a 
> ridiculous reason to chintz on the ADC resolution.  There is some 
> other reason.
> 
> Or, someone made a bad assumption in the first place and this whole 
> thread is a waste of time.
> 
> Frank Filippone
> Red735i at verizon.net
> 
> Peter according  to some guy on the internet its not a matter of a few 
> steps up from 12 to 14 bit. Its  4 times as many shades of intensity 
> in a given range.
> That sounds like a big deal for me.
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Leica Users Group.
> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information




--
Mark William Rabiner
Photographer
http://gallery.leica-users.org/v/lugalrabs/



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Replies: Reply from mark at rabinergroup.com (Mark Rabiner) ([Leica] New M(246) Outputs 12 bit Files)
Reply from rgacpa at gmail.com (Robert Adler) ([Leica] New M(246) Outputs 12 bit Files)
In reply to: Message from red735i at verizon.net (Frank Filippone) ([Leica] New M(246) Outputs 12 bit Files)
Message from mark at rabinergroup.com (Mark Rabiner) ([Leica] New M(246) Outputs 12 bit Files)