Archived posting to the Leica Users Group, 2013/05/25

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Subject: [Leica] PESO: RG Lewis and Leica M frustrations
From: steve.barbour at gmail.com (Steve Barbour)
Date: Sat, 25 May 2013 11:35:26 -0700
References: <CDC6CF5D.961DE%jkfyao@gmail.com> <41F24D85-FD4E-444A-A6F8-74C326A1142A@frozenlight.eu> <CAH1UNJ0AO27H3UHor3ZH5cx_3poLhRe8B49PiVKMUGeU0=wcBw@mail.gmail.com> <842D1852-FA13-4160-B737-31913182FA18@gmail.com> <CAE3QcF5RGOJQx1RLHJpNKA35k4q-zFU6kMDK6mggWZiQB2Q0Xg@mail.gmail.com> <18864475-D582-41E7-A891-2CF2A4AB99A9@gmail.com> <C55B5971-3504-462A-B043-87062D3D6BB2@comcast.net>

On May 25, 2013, at 9:00 AM, Richard Taylor <r.s.taylor at comcast.net> 
wrote:

> I think Steve has it right.  Unless the Mini proves to be a useable camera 
> at an acceptable price, Leica will have truly and finally abandoned those 
> of us looking for a practical tool in favor of the gifters and collectors.

Leica has abandoned the R users, now they sell the M to collectors at a 
premium, leaving the M users with promises, panting at the door....
In reality, many are in the process of moving on, to fine alternatives, 
available, and at a fair price.

s


> Useable to my mind means that the camera has at least an APS-C sensor, a 
> built-in EVF of a quality like that in the XE-1, and microlenses on the 
> sensor to let us use M lenses with excellent image quality with or without 
> an adapter.  The anticipated price of about $3.5K would be in the 
> acceptable range for me if the camera met the other criteria.  
> 
> Dick
> 
> 
> 
> On May 25, 2013, at 11:05 AM, Steve Barbour wrote:
> 
>> 
>> On May 25, 2013, at 7:21 AM, Geoff Hopkinson <hopsternew at gmail.com> 
>> wrote:
>> 
>>> I don't know if this translates well. In Australia we call this the " 
>>> tall
>>> poppy syndrome". Some people enjoy taking swipes at anyone successful. 
>>> Good
>>> on them. Of course it is in our interest too that Leica Camera does well.
>>> They make products that some of us value a lot for the photographs that 
>>> we
>>> can make with them and for the experience of using those products to
>>> achieve that, They can sell as much as they want to anyone that may value
>>> their products for whatever reason they wish. Why would you care if you
>>> value Leica for the photographs you can make?
>> 
>> If at this time virtually all of the product is going to people who don't 
>> make photographs, you can bet that I/we should care about it. Of course 
>> it is impacting our ability to make photos right now. But I don't think 
>> that you have answered my question. The short run is already surely 
>> impacted as I have just noted. I was asking about the longer run. What 
>> does this model predict in terms of future optical quality?
>> 
>> I am now using a wonderful 1950's Leica Summicron 50/2 on a Fujifilm XE-1 
>> body, with a better experience and with better results than with the 
>> latest Leica glass on my M9. Leica quality clearly is already 
>> compromised, and their plan to sell expensive gear to non users means 
>> that they are not currently giving priority to the practical needs of 
>> professionals and discriminating users. 
>> 
>> 
>> Steve
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> *Breathe in, breathe out, move on* -- Jimmy Buffett
>>> 
>>> Cheers
>>> Geoff
>>> http://www.pbase.com/hoppyman
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On 26 May 2013 00:04, Steve Barbour <steve.barbour at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> On May 25, 2013, at 6:55 AM, Jayanand Govindaraj <jayanand at gmail.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>> Nathan,
>>>>> It has taken you a very long time to realize and accept this. I was 
>>>>> sure
>>>> of
>>>>> the strategic shift in marketing with the M8 itself - it was so 
>>>>> obvious -
>>>>> the marketing, the choice of magazines for advertisements, the
>>>> positioning,
>>>>> the advertorials, etc. With Blackstone's entrance, it was doubly 
>>>>> obvious,
>>>>> especially when the ostensible reason for the investment was to spread
>>>> the
>>>>> Leica Boutiques, not develop new products. IMHO, it is great for them,
>>>>> because as in all MOJO businesses, the margins are obscene, and as 
>>>>> Joseph
>>>>> points out, there are enough people in the emerging world to pay for 
>>>>> the
>>>>> bulk of the production (not only the M series but the S series as 
>>>>> well).
>>>> It
>>>>> is not dissimilar to what the Bordeaux market has gone through in the
>>>> last
>>>>> few years, and what the Burgundy market is going through now - though I
>>>>> believe that over 50% of the bottles sold in China are fakes, because 
>>>>> as
>>>> in
>>>>> all such markets, the labels matter (Mojo), not the intrinsic quality. 
>>>>> It
>>>>> will be interesting to see what will happen to Leica as growth in China
>>>>> keeps slowing down, as is bound to happen. Remember, this will shaft 
>>>>> the
>>>>> Russian  market as well, because energy prices would nosedive. As far 
>>>>> as
>>>> I
>>>>> can see, they have alienated most of their traditional clientele, bar a
>>>>> few, and I wonder where they would go to make up the volumes. They just
>>>> do
>>>>> not have a diversified enough customer base to withstand a big topline
>>>> hit.
>>>>> It is going to be interesting. The best thing for all of us would be if
>>>> all
>>>>> those unused Leicas in China come on the used market at the same time, 
>>>>> as
>>>>> herd behaviour takes hold, and cause a glut there.
>>>>> 
>>>>> I would look to a Leica IPO for Blackstone and Kaufmann to cash out
>>>> sooner
>>>>> rather than later, if growth in China keeps drifting down.
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> Jayanand,
>>>> 
>>>> jewelry for rich clients who don't use it, or who use it with minimal
>>>> knowledge of its qualities and capabilities, makes the future sound 
>>>> rather
>>>> ominous.
>>>> 
>>>> What does this model predict in terms of future optical quality?
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> Steve
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> Cheers
>>>>> Jayanand
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> On Sat, May 25, 2013 at 6:13 PM, Nathan Wajsman <photo at 
>>>>> frozenlight.eu
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>>> Right. So Leica has made a strategic shift from the photography 
>>>>>> business
>>>>>> to the jewelry business. Fair enough, the Blackstone people obviously
>>>> know
>>>>>> where the money is. But then they should be up front about it so that
>>>> the
>>>>>> photography dealers can switch their focus to companies that actually
>>>> are
>>>>>> interested in supplying photographers.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>>> Nathan
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Nathan Wajsman
>>>>>> Alicante, Spain
>>>>>> http://www.frozenlight.eu
>>>>>> http://www.greatpix.eu
>>>>>> PICTURE OF THE WEEK: http://www.fotocycle.dk/paws
>>>>>> Blog: http://nathansmusings.wordpress.com/
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> YNWA
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> On May 25, 2013, at 2:28 PM, Joseph Yao wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Leica have been shipping sufficient quantities of the new M240.  They
>>>> may
>>>>>>> not have been sending them to their 'traditional' markets where their
>>>>>> profit
>>>>>>> margins are lower.  You will see plenty of M240 in, for example,
>>>> Beijing
>>>>>> and
>>>>>>> Shanghai, where the going rate for one is US$12,000 to US$13,000.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> A handful of limited production silver chrome MM have been made for 
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>> Chinese market, and available at RMB 1,581,000 each, approx.
>>>> US$258,280.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Joseph
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> Leica Users Group.
>>>>>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information
>>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Leica Users Group.
>>>>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Leica Users Group.
>>>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information
>>>> 
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Leica Users Group.
>>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> Leica Users Group.
>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
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> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information



Replies: Reply from grduprey at mchsi.com (grduprey at mchsi.com) ([Leica] PESO: RG Lewis and Leica M frustrations)
Reply from images at comporium.net (Tina Manley) ([Leica] PESO: RG Lewis and Leica M frustrations)
In reply to: Message from jkfyao at gmail.com (Joseph Yao) ([Leica] PESO: RG Lewis and Leica M frustrations)
Message from photo at frozenlight.eu (Nathan Wajsman) ([Leica] PESO: RG Lewis and Leica M frustrations)
Message from jayanand at gmail.com (Jayanand Govindaraj) ([Leica] PESO: RG Lewis and Leica M frustrations)
Message from steve.barbour at gmail.com (Steve Barbour) ([Leica] PESO: RG Lewis and Leica M frustrations)
Message from hopsternew at gmail.com (Geoff Hopkinson) ([Leica] PESO: RG Lewis and Leica M frustrations)
Message from steve.barbour at gmail.com (Steve Barbour) ([Leica] PESO: RG Lewis and Leica M frustrations)
Message from r.s.taylor at comcast.net (Richard Taylor) ([Leica] PESO: RG Lewis and Leica M frustrations)