Archived posting to the Leica Users Group, 2013/05/25

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Subject: [Leica] PESO: RG Lewis and Leica M frustrations
From: grduprey at mchsi.com (grduprey at mchsi.com)
Date: Sat, 25 May 2013 11:23:06 -0500 (CDT)

$3.5 K would not be acceptable for a APS-C camera, a FF camera would be 
another thing all together.

Gene

----- Original Message -----
From: "Richard Taylor" <r.s.taylor at comcast.net>
To: "Leica Users Group" <lug at leica-users.org>
Sent: Saturday, May 25, 2013 11:00:36 AM GMT -06:00 US/Canada Central
Subject: Re: [Leica] PESO: RG Lewis and Leica M frustrations

I think Steve has it right.  Unless the Mini proves to be a useable camera 
at an acceptable price, Leica will have truly and finally abandoned those of 
us looking for a practical tool in favor of the gifters and collectors.  

Useable to my mind means that the camera has at least an APS-C sensor, a 
built-in EVF of a quality like that in the XE-1, and microlenses on the 
sensor to let us use M lenses with excellent image quality with or without 
an adapter.  The anticipated price of about $3.5K would be in the acceptable 
range for me if the camera met the other criteria.  

Dick



On May 25, 2013, at 11:05 AM, Steve Barbour wrote:

> 
> On May 25, 2013, at 7:21 AM, Geoff Hopkinson <hopsternew at gmail.com> 
> wrote:
> 
>> I don't know if this translates well. In Australia we call this the " tall
>> poppy syndrome". Some people enjoy taking swipes at anyone successful. 
>> Good
>> on them. Of course it is in our interest too that Leica Camera does well.
>> They make products that some of us value a lot for the photographs that we
>> can make with them and for the experience of using those products to
>> achieve that, They can sell as much as they want to anyone that may value
>> their products for whatever reason they wish. Why would you care if you
>> value Leica for the photographs you can make?
> 
> If at this time virtually all of the product is going to people who don't 
> make photographs, you can bet that I/we should care about it. Of course it 
> is impacting our ability to make photos right now. But I don't think that 
> you have answered my question. The short run is already surely impacted as 
> I have just noted. I was asking about the longer run. What does this model 
> predict in terms of future optical quality?
> 
> I am now using a wonderful 1950's Leica Summicron 50/2 on a Fujifilm XE-1 
> body, with a better experience and with better results than with the 
> latest Leica glass on my M9. Leica quality clearly is already compromised, 
> and their plan to sell expensive gear to non users means that they are not 
> currently giving priority to the practical needs of professionals and 
> discriminating users. 
> 
> 
> Steve
> 
> 
> 
>> 
>> 
>> *Breathe in, breathe out, move on* -- Jimmy Buffett
>> 
>> Cheers
>> Geoff
>> http://www.pbase.com/hoppyman
>> 
>> 
>> On 26 May 2013 00:04, Steve Barbour <steve.barbour at gmail.com> wrote:
>> 
>>> 
>>> On May 25, 2013, at 6:55 AM, Jayanand Govindaraj <jayanand at gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>> 
>>>> Nathan,
>>>> It has taken you a very long time to realize and accept this. I was sure
>>> of
>>>> the strategic shift in marketing with the M8 itself - it was so obvious 
>>>> -
>>>> the marketing, the choice of magazines for advertisements, the
>>> positioning,
>>>> the advertorials, etc. With Blackstone's entrance, it was doubly 
>>>> obvious,
>>>> especially when the ostensible reason for the investment was to spread
>>> the
>>>> Leica Boutiques, not develop new products. IMHO, it is great for them,
>>>> because as in all MOJO businesses, the margins are obscene, and as 
>>>> Joseph
>>>> points out, there are enough people in the emerging world to pay for the
>>>> bulk of the production (not only the M series but the S series as well).
>>> It
>>>> is not dissimilar to what the Bordeaux market has gone through in the
>>> last
>>>> few years, and what the Burgundy market is going through now - though I
>>>> believe that over 50% of the bottles sold in China are fakes, because as
>>> in
>>>> all such markets, the labels matter (Mojo), not the intrinsic quality. 
>>>> It
>>>> will be interesting to see what will happen to Leica as growth in China
>>>> keeps slowing down, as is bound to happen. Remember, this will shaft the
>>>> Russian  market as well, because energy prices would nosedive. As far as
>>> I
>>>> can see, they have alienated most of their traditional clientele, bar a
>>>> few, and I wonder where they would go to make up the volumes. They just
>>> do
>>>> not have a diversified enough customer base to withstand a big topline
>>> hit.
>>>> It is going to be interesting. The best thing for all of us would be if
>>> all
>>>> those unused Leicas in China come on the used market at the same time, 
>>>> as
>>>> herd behaviour takes hold, and cause a glut there.
>>>> 
>>>> I would look to a Leica IPO for Blackstone and Kaufmann to cash out
>>> sooner
>>>> rather than later, if growth in China keeps drifting down.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Jayanand,
>>> 
>>> jewelry for rich clients who don't use it, or who use it with minimal
>>> knowledge of its qualities and capabilities, makes the future sound 
>>> rather
>>> ominous.
>>> 
>>> What does this model predict in terms of future optical quality?
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Steve
>>> 
>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> Cheers
>>>> Jayanand
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> On Sat, May 25, 2013 at 6:13 PM, Nathan Wajsman <photo at frozenlight.eu
>>>> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>> Right. So Leica has made a strategic shift from the photography 
>>>>> business
>>>>> to the jewelry business. Fair enough, the Blackstone people obviously
>>> know
>>>>> where the money is. But then they should be up front about it so that
>>> the
>>>>> photography dealers can switch their focus to companies that actually
>>> are
>>>>> interested in supplying photographers.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>> Nathan
>>>>> 
>>>>> Nathan Wajsman
>>>>> Alicante, Spain
>>>>> http://www.frozenlight.eu
>>>>> http://www.greatpix.eu
>>>>> PICTURE OF THE WEEK: http://www.fotocycle.dk/paws
>>>>> Blog: http://nathansmusings.wordpress.com/
>>>>> 
>>>>> YNWA
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> On May 25, 2013, at 2:28 PM, Joseph Yao wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>>> Leica have been shipping sufficient quantities of the new M240.  They
>>> may
>>>>>> not have been sending them to their 'traditional' markets where their
>>>>> profit
>>>>>> margins are lower.  You will see plenty of M240 in, for example,
>>> Beijing
>>>>> and
>>>>>> Shanghai, where the going rate for one is US$12,000 to US$13,000.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> A handful of limited production silver chrome MM have been made for 
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> Chinese market, and available at RMB 1,581,000 each, approx.
>>> US$258,280.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Joseph
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Leica Users Group.
>>>>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information
>>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Leica Users Group.
>>>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information
>>> 
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Leica Users Group.
>>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information
>>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> Leica Users Group.
>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Leica Users Group.
> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information


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Replies: Reply from r.s.taylor at comcast.net (Richard Taylor) ([Leica] PESO: RG Lewis and Leica M frustrations)
In reply to: Message from r.s.taylor at comcast.net (Richard Taylor) ([Leica] PESO: RG Lewis and Leica M frustrations)