Archived posting to the Leica Users Group, 2013/05/19

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Subject: [Leica] Fuji choice and Leica
From: images at comporium.net (Tina Manley)
Date: Sun, 19 May 2013 20:55:11 -0400
References: <51996C04.8040104@threshinc.com>

Thanks, Peter.  A very reasoned and coherent response and one I will take
into consideration.  I appreciate your opinion!!!

Tina


On Sun, May 19, 2013 at 8:19 PM, Peter Klein <pklein at threshinc.com> wrote:

> You're welcome, Tina. Part of writing this was to "think out loud" for
> myself, too. Your key phrase here is "for my Leica M lenses." The Fuji
> X-Pro1 is a wonderful camera, and we've seen wonderful work out of it in
> the hands of people like B.D. Colen, Howard Cummer and Gerry Walden.
>
> I'm in a bit of a quandry with the larger issue myself. I've got some
> wonderful Leica and Leica-mount lenses.  But the OM-D is better at ISO 1600
> than my M8 is at 640. Mix-and-match between the other camera and Leica
> lenses is only good in special cases like the theater, concert hall, macro
> or static-subject telephoto. On the other hand, the Fuji and the OM-D are
> giving Leica quality a run for its money with their native lenses.
>
> The ability to do mix-and-match Leica lenses with somebody else's body
> puts the emphasis on the things you might do sometimes, not what you'll do
> most of the time. I've got no regrets buying into micro 4/3, but I have to
> accept that it is what it is, not what I'd like it to be. There is still
> nothing like a skilled photographer with an RF and a window finder for
> decisive moment work.
>
> So for the kind of people photography that you, I and many of us like to
> do, Leica M still wins--if there's enough light. So my now-ancient M8 is
> often still my camera of choice.  I love the 35/1.4 ASPH as a
> 47mm-equivalent normal lens, but I do wish I could use my 50mm lenses as
> 50mm lenses.  For that reason, I might upgrade to an M9 when the price goes
> down a bit more. But I also realize that the M9 won't be much of a high-ISO
> improvement. So there's a good chance I'll be an M-240 customer eventually.
> God help me and my wallet.  :-)
>
> --Peter
>
>
>
> > Thanks for your very reasoned review.  Those are exactly the reasons I
> > would hesitate buying the Fuji just for my Leica M lenses.  I HATE EVF
> and
> > shutter delay!  I think I will wait.  Leica seems to be working on any
> > problems and I have every confidence that they will fix them before they
> > resume sending out cameras.  I'd love to have the M240 tomorrow but I'm
> > willing to wait for perfection.
> >
> > Tina
> >
> >
> > On Sun, May 19, 2013 at 5:16 PM, Peter Klein <pklein at threshinc.com>
> wrote:
> >
> > > I looked seriously at the X-Pro1 some time ago.  I wanted a replacement
> > > for my aging Panny G1, which was my "other than Leica" camera.
> > >
> > > I liked the feel of the X-Pro1, the discrete control buttons, the image
> > > quality, especially at high ISO (as seen in other's pictures). I was
> put
> > > off by the autofocus slowness and problems with RAW support (now
> somewhat
> > > mitigated by firmware and RAW processor upgrades), and the lack of
> diopter
> > > adjustment in the viewfinder. Eventually micro 4/3 won out. I already
> had a
> > > couple of lenses, so the cost to upgrade to the Olympus OM-D E-M5 was
> less.
> > > The high-ISO image quality was slightly less than the Fuji, but quite
> > > usable. (I've since grown to love the B&W conversions I'm getting out
> of
> > > the OM-D at ISO 1600).
> > >
> > > My one real disappointment with the OM-D is that it is not a decisive
> > > moment camera for fleeting expressions. (I suspect the same holds for
> the
> > > XE-1) There is a bit of delay between what happens in life and when
> you see
> > > it in the viewfinder. And, there is a little-known issue in micro-4/3
> > > called Shutter Shock, which prevents you from getting the sharpest
> pictures
> > > at the most-used shutter speeds unless you program in an additional 1/8
> > > second shutter delay.
> > >
> > > Viewfinder delay is the Achilles heel of all EVF cameras. Add the
> delay in
> > > focusing a manual focus lens, and you get a combination that is fine
> for
> > > posed and static subjects, but not for action.
> > >
> > > I've done much playing around with manual lenses (both Leica and OM) on
> > > DSLR and micro-4/3 bodies. For telephoto and macro, it's fine. For the
> > > theater or classical music concerts where the performers don't move
> around
> > > much, it's quite usable.  I did well with a 90 Summicron on the OM-D,
> > > acting as a 180mm f/2.  But the native lenses are just much more
> convenient
> > > and faster to work with. For anything that moves, you want the native
> > > lenses. Not to mention that they were designed with the camera format
> and
> > > sensor in mind.  And that Leica wide-angle lenses on anything but a
> Leica
> > > are always going to be a problem due to the steep angle of light
> hitting
> > > the sensor.
> > >
> > > This is why, if I were to get a Fuji, I would get the X-Pro1. It gives
> you
> > > EVF when you need precise framing and can deal with slow manual focus,
> but
> > > an optical viewfinder when you are dealing with anything moving. And I
> > > would certainly get the Fuji lenses, just as I got the micro-4/3
> primes.
> > >
> > > B&W conversions from the OM-D:
> > > <http://www.flickr.com/photos/****24844563<http://www.flickr.com/photos/**24844563>at
> > > N04/8739819257/**lightbox<http**://www.flickr.com/photos/**24844563<http://www.flickr.com/photos/24844563>at
>
> > > N04/8739819257/lightbox>>,
> > > and the next 3 "Older"
> > > and this one: 
> > > <http://www.flickr.com/photos/****24844563<http://www.flickr.com/photos/**24844563>at
> > >  N04/8656429757/**
> > > lightbox 
> > > <http://www.flickr.com/photos/**24844563<http://www.flickr.com/photos/24844563>at
>
> > > N04/8656429757/lightbox>>
> > >
> > > 90 Summicron on OM-D in a concert hall:
> > > <http://www.flickr.com/photos/****24844563<http://www.flickr.com/photos/**24844563>at
> > > N04/8590916253/**lightbox/<htt**p://www.flickr.com/photos/**24844563<http://www.flickr.com/photos/24844563>at
>
> > > N04/8590916253/lightbox/>>
> > > and then next 2 "Older"
> > >
> > > The best I could do with my cousins' relatively slow tennis game. And
> this
> > > the best of about 30 tries, with the shutter shock delay turned *off*,
> and
> > > keeping my non-viewfinder eye open to watch the ball, and and hitting
> the
> > > shutter when the ball crossed the net. Using the EVF, the ball was
> almost
> > > never even in the frame.
> > > <http://gallery.leica-users.****org/v/pklein/family/gladys80/****
> > > P4150047.jpg.html<http://**gallery.leica-users.org/v/**
> pklein/family/gladys80/**P4150047.jpg.html<http://gallery.leica-users.org/v/pklein/family/gladys80/P4150047.jpg.html>
> >
>
> > > >
> > >
> > > I suspect you'd get similar results from an EVF-only XE-1.
> > >
> > > --Peter
> > >
> > >
> > > > Steve sorry if you have posted this before and I missed the
> information.
> > > I'm
> > > > trying to decide between the x pro 1 to use with their 18-55 and one
> > > other
> > > > lens for now, maybe the 35 1.4.
> > > > As well as as my Leica glass with the Fuji adapter.
> > > > Or the XE-1.
> > > > I'm having a hard time making a decision for some reason on which
> body.
> > > Have
> > > > you both or have you used both that you can provide your thoughts?
> > > > Thanks very much,
> > > > And Nathan what model did you order?
> > > > Thanks,
> > > >
> > > > Scott
> > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ______________________________****_________________
> > > Leica Users Group.
> > > See
> > > http://leica-users.org/****mailman/listinfo/lug<http://leica-users.org/**mailman/listinfo/lug>
> <http://**leica-users.org/mailman/**listinfo/lug<http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug>
> >for
>
> > >  more information
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Tina Manley, ASMP
> > www.tinamanley.com
> >
>
>
> ______________________________**_________________
> Leica Users Group.
> See 
> http://leica-users.org/**mailman/listinfo/lug<http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug>for
>  more information
>
>


-- 
Tina Manley, ASMP
www.tinamanley.com


In reply to: Message from pklein at threshinc.com (Peter Klein) ([Leica] Fuji choice and Leica)