Archived posting to the Leica Users Group, 2013/02/03

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Subject: [Leica] Canon doesn't see it quite like Mark
From: john at mcmaster.co.nz (John McMaster)
Date: Sun, 3 Feb 2013 09:41:19 +0000
References: <D77433A8-917D-499A-90FA-9658D669B225@btinternet.com> <CD3397C9.4AD7%mark@rabinergroup.com>

> They thought 120 film was a huge compromise the most popular
> format was 5x7" when the Leica was invented or 7x5 as you Brits say.

Probably plate or fractions of?

> I think in ten years twenty years will kick ourselves when we look back at
> 2013 in not having in the perspective in fully realizing just how early in 
> to the
> digital age where're into right now. Its a big revolution and people are 
> just
> figuring it out. And I think we're just past square one now.

It is already beyond what most people need and way better than they have 
ever had before.

> The full frame compacts are just coming out. The photo industry is real
> excited about them but no one of course knows what the real effect will be.

Um...who else is lining up?

> I'm excited as hell about the new full frame Leica M and also the
> Monochrom.

Back when it came out you certainly weren't excited about the Monochrom....

> I'm used to the 35mm 24x36 format. My glass I've been using for decades is
> sized for that. Though I also have Hasselblad glass for getting into medium
> format digital as well.

I think you may find your fabled glass is not up to a sensor of that size.

> Most our output  now is for web galleries and websites a few hundred pixies
> across.  And a 2x crop or less is fine for that perhaps. But there are 
> still those
> who know that they will have to make blowups sometime to hang a show or
> for a client. And for us to click a pic but have it be on a fingernail 
> sized format
> is a very frustrating experience because we know we don't really have the
> shot. Its just too small to make a full sized print from that.

Unless you wanted grain I was never a fan of 35mm at 20/24 (I used medium 
format or sheet) but APS-C (and probably M4/3) can beat that. A cropped 
digital FF beats any 35mm film I have seen (bar Technical Pan and the like) 
at that size.

john
 
> 
> On 2/3/13 4:00 AM, "Frank Dernie" <Frank.Dernie at btinternet.com> wrote:
> 
> > Yes Mark but you are -just- like Barnacks contemporary critics, never
> > accepting that a smaller format could ever produce acceptable results.
> >
> > Well Leica proved them wrong, not as good as MF, 5x4 and 10x8
> > obviously, but entirely useable for reasonably sized prints and much
> > more convenient for use hand held, traveling, climbing etc..
> > Today few people argue that MF digital sensors don't produce better
> > results (at least in bright light), but superb and totally acceptable
> > results in prints much bigger than Barnack would ever have believed
> > possible are being made in their billions by people using the smaller 
> > sensors
> nowadays.
> > Just like 35mm film displaced 120.
> > Get used to it, you are a dinosaur - just like all Barnack's critics
> > back in the 1920s.
> > FD
> >
> > On 3 Feb, 2013, at 08:05, Mark Rabiner <mark at rabinergroup.com> wrote:
> >
> >> Well Gary I think that there was a guy named Barnack who thought a
> >> lot of work could be done with a quality compact camera with a 24x36mm
> format.
> >> After much thought he didn't go with 24x18 as a few others in the
> >> time were going. Which was called "single frame" he went with "double
> >> frame" taking up twice the film in length an at the time  a bit of an 
> >> unusual
> move.
> >> His hunch was proved right. It turned out that most of what you'd
> >> ever want to do could be done in that format for a hundred years later.
> >> There's really nothing arbitrary about it and its not a minor subject.
> >> As is its WAY more of an important issue that lenses.
> >> If the thread bores you please continue playing with your cameras
> >> which could come out of a box of crackerjacks and ignore the posts
> >> about eagerly waited for larger format compacts.
> >> Me I'll be not be totally happy until the first medium format compact
> >> comes out. An in effect:  digital Fuji folder
> >>
> >>
> >> On 2/3/13 1:40 AM, "Gary Benson" <bensonga at gmail.com> wrote:
> >>
> >>> All these arguments over format size get very tiresome, very quickly.
> >>> Some people will think if any subject is worth shooting at all, only
> >>> 8x10 film will do.  Others are quite happy to shoot with something
> >>> else.
> >>>
> >>> I really thing good photos can be made with any camera.....they will
> >>> just be "good" in different ways
> >>>
> >>> I say.....pick the camera or format that works best for you and your
> >>> shooting requirements and leave the rest of us to do the same.
> >>>
> >>> Gary
> >>>
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>> Leica Users Group.
> >>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >> Mark William Rabiner
> >> Photography
> >> http://gallery.leica-users.org/v/lugalrabs/
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Leica Users Group.
> >> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Leica Users Group.
> > See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information
> 
> 
> 
> 
> --
> Mark William Rabiner
> Photography
> http://gallery.leica-users.org/v/lugalrabs/
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Leica Users Group.
> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information
> 
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In reply to: Message from Frank.Dernie at btinternet.com (Frank Dernie) ([Leica] Canon doesn't see it quite like Mark)
Message from mark at rabinergroup.com (Mark Rabiner) ([Leica] Canon doesn't see it quite like Mark)