Archived posting to the Leica Users Group, 2012/12/09
[Author Prev] [Author Next] [Thread Prev] [Thread Next] [Author Index] [Topic Index] [Home] [Search]That stuff isn't limited to the south. Here in northern Indiana, confederate flags are common and there are probably more KKK members than in any southern state. I grew up in Waynedale, a section of the city of Fort Wayne that had its own Ku Klux Klan chapter. The Klan held a parade in Waynedale in 1982! When I was a teenager, Waynedale's KKK no longer existed, but the National Imperial Wizard of the American Knights of the Ku Klux Klan, the largest KKK in the country, lived just outside Fort Wayne. He went on Jerry Springer three times in the 1990s! In 1993, on Martin Luther King day, the American Knights KKK had a rally on the front steps of the courthouse in downtown Fort Wayne. Fort Wayne is a big city with a lot of the folks the Klan hates (Blacks, Jews, Mexicans, etc.), so the police were afraid there would be violence. They set up two areas for spectators to watch the KKK rally, one for Klan opponents, and one for the Klan's supporters. Spectators were asked which side they were on and directed to the appropriate area. An enormous number of police officers stood in the space between the two sides to keep them from fighting. The cops counted how many people went to each viewing area, and more than HALF told the police they were there to support the Ku Klux Klan! There was no violence due to the overwhelming law enforcement presence, but the number of KKK supporters in the crowd was a gigantic embarrassment to the city's leaders, who were desperately trying to portray Fort Wayne as a wonderful, progressive, modern city that is a good place to do business (create jobs). When the Klan was at the height of its power, in the 1920s, more than 40,000 men in Indiana were Klan members. Indiana was never a slave state, and was not part of the confederacy, but racism here was and is very strong. -- Chris Crawford Fine Art Photography Fort Wayne, Indiana 260-437-8990 http://www.chriscrawfordphoto.com My portfolio http://blog.chriscrawfordphoto.com My latest work! http://www.facebook.com/pages/Christopher-Crawford/48229272798 Become a fan on Facebook On 12/9/12 8:06 PM, "Tina Manley" <images at comporium.net> wrote: >Absolutely! The diehard War of Northern Aggression supporters will tell >you that the war was not about slavery. It was about state's rights. Many >people still believe that and are convinced that the South will rise >again! > Those are the ones with Confederate flags and basements full of guns and >survival gear and televisions tuned to Fox News. Some of my relatives. > >Tina > >On Sun, Dec 9, 2012 at 7:15 PM, Don Dory <don.dory at gmail.com> wrote: > >> Ric, while slavery was the proximate cause of the war, most of the >>response >> was the truly great debate about the nature of the union. Many in the >> Southern States truly believed in the State first and the union second. >> Lee is the perfect example of one who abhorred slavery but so loved his >> Virginia that he declined the honor of leading the Union Armies in the >> invasion of Virginia. >> >> Of course political power and the wealth that flowed from that had a >>lot to >> do with the ultimate war. With Lincoln as president there was no doubt >> that the new states joining the union would be free states that would >> ultimately change the balance of power in the Senate and the House. If >>you >> were wealthy in the South, in no small part due to slavery, then the >>idea >> that the industrial northern states combined with the new states in the >> west could take your wealth away was worth the expenditure of thousands >>of >> lives. Of course not their own. I say that, but if you visit the >> University of Virginia you will see that most of the classes near the >>Civil >> War died in the war: if you could go to the University you were part of >>the >> ruling class. >> >> >> On Sun, Dec 9, 2012 at 7:05 PM, Don Dory <don.dory at gmail.com> wrote: >> >> > Ken, I just had a good friend tour the Blues sites in Mississippi near >> > Greenwood. Most are still there in all their grubby glory. The Delta >> is a >> > place of great poverty with pockets of vast wealth. Good ingredients >>for >> > the Blues. Most of the worst poverty is invisible now. It doesn't >>mean >> > that it isn't there but it is poor politics to have rows of shotgun >> shacks >> > with no running water and no interior toilet facilities visible from >>the >> > road. >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > On Sun, Dec 9, 2012 at 7:00 PM, Don Dory <don.dory at gmail.com> wrote: >> > >> >> I knew that term would draw fire. Many residents of the Southeastern >> >> U.S. use that term as from their perspective the Northern States >> violated >> >> the long term agreement about slavery. It is important when moving >> between >> >> cultures to understand their perspective on how things happened and >>more >> >> important the why. Whether it fits the facts on the ground the >>personal >> >> reality is the sum of the society, it's myths, dreams, and the >> origination >> >> stories that culture tells itself. >> >> >> >> As to the American Civil War as most know the conflict of the early >>to >> >> mid 1860's it was eighty years in the making more or less and proof >>that >> >> even know horrendous human undertakings require just as horrendous a >> >> response to change. My opinion is that is why change is so hard, the >> price >> >> of change is often as horrendous as the objected to activity. >>Consider >> the >> >> Second World War, we remember the Holocaust as 6 million Jews, >>Gypsies, >> and >> >> mental defectives being slaughtered but it took the lives of some 20 >> >> million Russians, 12 million Germans, half a million French citizens, >> half >> >> a million Americans, almost 600,000 Poles. I could go on but >>certainly >> a >> >> very high price to resolve European issues starting in 1914. >> >> >> >> As to the question of the pictures, if you browse the images of the >> Civil >> >> War there are a few still available of the "hospitals" where the only >> known >> >> treatment for 58 caliber bullets smashing bone and flesh was >>amputation; >> >> hence the piles of arms and legs. The United States suffered more >> deaths >> >> and injuries during the Civil War than it did in any other conflict: >>new >> >> estimates are at 750,000 casualties. >> >> >> >> >> >> On Sun, Dec 9, 2012 at 6:24 PM, Tina Manley <images at comporium.net> >> wrote: >> >> >> >>> I love the South and would miss it terribly. There are plenty of us >>who >> >>> don't fly Confederate flags, support Obama, vote Democratic, and >>don't >> >>> stereotype others. >> >>> >> >>> Tina >> >>> >> >>> On Sunday, December 9, 2012, Bill Pearce <billcpearce at cox.net> >>wrote: >> >>> > Usually pronounced Wah uv Nawthen Agression, this is the term that >> >>> residents of the US South (Sore Loosers) use to describe the >>American >> >>> Civil >> >>> War. These can be, but not always are the same people that have >>large >> >>> Confederate flag decals on their pickup trucks. It is an inaccurate >> >>> description. President Lincoln was brilliant and far seeing, and >> realized >> >>> that if this succession was to become fact, there would be no end, >>and >> >>> what >> >>> is the USA would become a hodgepodge of tiny nations led by who >>knows >> >>> what. >> >>> There are many of us, however, who wouldn't miss the south a bit. >> >>> > >> >>> > -----Original Message----- From: philippe.amard >> >>> > Sent: Sunday, December 09, 2012 5:10 PM >> >>> > To: Leica Users Group >> >>> > Subject: Re: [Leica] Desensitization >> >>> > >> >>> > could it be Vietnam? >> >>> > ph >> >>> > >> >>> > Le 9 d?c. 12 ? 23:39, Douglas Barry a ?crit : >> >>> > >> >>> >> >> >>> >> "Don Dory" <don.dory at gmail.com> wrote >> >>> >>> >> >>> >>> nasty deaths from smallpox and ebola. Or consider the images >>from >> >>> the >> >>> War >> >>> >>> of Northern Aggression where there were stacks of limbs outside >>the >> >>> medical >> >>> >>> tents. >> >>> >> >> >>> >> Don, as an Irishman living in Ireland and unfamiliar with many >>terms >> >>> used in the States, what was the War of Northern Aggression? Do you >> >>> mean >> >>> the Korean War? I never saw those images. >> >>> >> >> >>> >> I presume you don't mean the American Civil War as I thought that >> >>> started with the Confederacy attacking Fort Sumter? Well it did >> >>> according >> >>> to all those school history books (European) I read 50 years ago. >> >>> >> >> >>> >> Maybe school books are different in the USA.... >> >>> >> >> >>> >> Douglas >> >>> >> _________ >> >>> >> Douglas Barry >> >>> >> Bray, Co. Wicklow >> >>> >> Republic of Ireland >> >>> >> >> >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> >>> >> Leica Users Group. >> >>> >> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more >> information >> >>> > >> >>> > _______________________________________________ >> >>> > Leica Users Group. >> >>> > See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more >>information >> >>> > >> >>> > _______________________________________________ >> >>> > Leica Users Group. >> >>> > See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more >>information >> >>> > >> >>> > >> >>> >> >>> -- >> >>> Tina Manley, ASMP >> >>> www.tinamanley.com >> >>> >> >>> _______________________________________________ >> >>> Leica Users Group. >> >>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information >> >>> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> -- >> >> Don >> >> don.dory at gmail.com >> >> >> > >> > >> > >> > -- >> > Don >> > don.dory at gmail.com >> > >> >> >> >> -- >> Don >> don.dory at gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Leica Users Group. >> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information >> >> > > >-- >Tina Manley, ASMP >www.tinamanley.com > >_______________________________________________ >Leica Users Group. >See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information