Archived posting to the Leica Users Group, 2012/11/30
[Author Prev] [Author Next] [Thread Prev] [Thread Next] [Author Index] [Topic Index] [Home] [Search]Hi Geoff my friend I think you got it wrong here - they are dealing with equipment real pros actually use. With this in mind, the Leicas are the Ferraris of cameras all right - hear the cries of dispair of our fellow lusters when they - we - see the price tag and predicatable maintenance expenses. Now, try to find a Ferrari used as a taxi, i.e. gear that must start every morning, carry the load all day long, relentlessly clock up the miles - read kilometer in civilized countries - and satisfy the client without hurting your own back, health, and wallet - find a Ferrari used as a taxi where the driver has to service the sensor ... As a dilettante, my L1 was a nice built to last rickshaw I loved and my D700 is now like those obsolete VAG skoda taxis in Barcelona :-) In the meantime pros drive newer models of the same or other brands, but no Ferrari and very few own a Bugatti S2. I presume that a photojournalist who does make a living, shoots on average at least 100 frames a day, far exceeding your already impressive count for a hobbyist. And they don't want to take a chance on football grounds, in the rain, riding a scooter, in the scorching sun, getting crushed in a mob of their colleagues, out in the wild, jogging from one spot to another, etc. I recently posted a joke photo about pros now NOT using flash: out of the 13 pros shooting our former PM last week; how many Leicas did you spot out? This, of course is all irrelevant to the final output, rather it's all about the economics and rationale of the trade. Amiti?s du weekend :-) Philippe Le 30 nov. 12 ? 08:51, Geoff Hopkinson a ?crit : > Not Jim, any visitor that may dare to bring a digital Leica along > into your > Bermuda Triangle of Leica woes.. > In five or six years of using Leica here and participating in the > forums,especially the dedicated international one more than the > cosmopolitan LUG and meeting some hundreds of Leica users on-line or > in > person, I never read such a thing. > I am an amateur. Were I trying to earn a living today as a > photojournalist > I would like likely choose a different tool as well but I can only > say that > I have never had a single Leica body hiccup here (M3, M6's M7, M8 > and M9) > with something north of 25,000 frames here. I have had to have a > couple of > lenses readjusted for focus errors > > 30,000 + M9s out there by the way. > > Cheers, > Geoff > http://www.pbase.com/hoppyman > > > > On 30 November 2012 17:28, Phil Forrest > <photo.forrest at earthlink.net> wrote: > >> Most of them went through Webb Cam photo, the last remaining >> independent (and now last remaining) photographic shot in Philly >> proper. >> 5 bodies in one week had to be sent back! >> In my circle of close friends we had 11 digital Leicas between us all >> and every one had problems. None of us own any digital Leicas >> anymore. >> This is how Leica is courting its next generation of users. >> >> The only thing that saddened me about selling my M9 was the >> convenience >> of a fantastic digital file available immediately. >> ...Then I walked down Lafayette St. towards Chinatown for a bowl of >> pho >> and some shooting along the way, holding my excellent condition Nikon >> SP and $3000, and didn't look back. >> >> As for Jim, he need not worry, his film gear isn't affected by such >> phenomena. >> >> Phil Forrest >> >> >> >> On Fri, 30 Nov 2012 16:49:34 +1000 >> Geoff Hopkinson <hopsternew at gmail.com> wrote: >> >>> Phil I am genuinely astonished that you report 10 M9s in your area >>> that have all had to go back to Leica a few times. >>> a 2 or 300% failure rate!!?? I have never heard of such a thing of >>> any >>> brand anywhere. >>> 20 digital Leicas with a 100% failure rate! >>> >>> Sorry Jim Shulman there is some kind of bad Leica karma going on in >>> Philly. No more visitors for you ;-) >>> >>> Cheers, >>> Geoff >>> http://www.pbase.com/hoppyman >>> >>> >>> >>> On 30 November 2012 15:48, Phil Forrest >>> <photo.forrest at earthlink.net> >>> wrote: >>> >>>> Nope, won't happen. >>>> The Leica M9 failure rate was far too high for news professionals >>>> to >>>> consider using them for work. It's a fun hobby camera but for the >>>> hard working journalist, the Leica doesn't cut it. Both my M8 and >>>> M9 spent about 40% of the time I owned them out at Leica for >>>> repairs. I personally know owners of a total of nine other M9s in >>>> the Philadelphia area and every single one of them had to go back >>>> to Leica a few times. One of my friends went through three shutters >>>> in his M8 then two shutters and a sensor in his M9. And he's a >>>> working pro in Philly who luckily has Canon gear for backup but >>>> while his Leica was out at the factory, the backup became the >>>> regular camera. >>>> >>>> All of the digital Leicas I have seen have had to have sensors >>>> remapped or replaced due to the hot pixel / vertical line issues. >>>> So, about 20 digital Leica M bodies in the Philly area that are >>>> owned by acquaintances of mine and 100% of them had to be repaired. >>>> Not reliable enough for a premium product. For a camera that costs >>>> that much, it should not only be reliable, it should be PERFECT. >>>> >>>> You said the M9 was going to be the game changer a few years ago, >>>> Mark. It didn't happen. It drove myself and two of my friends AWAY >>>> from Leica as a matter of fact due to their incredible expense, >>>> slow service, and then their declining support for the still >>>> excellent M8. >>>> >>>> So again, we won't see Leicas taking their place in the journalism >>>> world. Everyone knew the rangefinder was on its way out by 1960, so >>>> why would that change today? >>>> >>>> Phil Forrest >>>> >>>> >>>> On Thu, 29 Nov 2012 20:58:56 -0500 >>>> Mark Rabiner <mark at rabinergroup.com> wrote: >>>> >>>>> I do think though the M9 worked and the M is going to work a >>>>> whole lot better and there are a huge amount of used Leica glass >>>>> out there in a gamut of price points. Pros are familiar with what >>>>> Leica rangefinders have done in the not too distant past and will >>>>> be interested like they always have in what that might add to >>>>> their work. I think the M is going to be a huge success for Leica >>>>> and we'll be seeing articles about pros using them for jobs. We >>>>> didn't wee that with the M9. We will see it with the M. Imagine >>>>> shooting an f1 lens @ iso 6400! And video clips. I think the new >>>>> M will get Pro support in the market; and Leica will be back in >>>>> the hot spot at least where they were in the 90's. When sure a >>>>> small amount of shooter used Leica but in each group there >>>>> usually was at least one. >>>>> >>>>> Mark William Rabiner >>>>> Photography >>>>> http://gallery.leica-users.org/v/lugalrabs/ >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> From: Chris Crawford <chris at chriscrawfordphoto.com> >>>>>> Reply-To: Leica Users Group <lug at leica-users.org> >>>>>> Date: Thu, 29 Nov 2012 20:52:31 -0500 >>>>>> To: Leica Users Group <lug at leica-users.org> >>>>>> Subject: Re: [Leica] Cameras Real Pros Use >>>>>> >>>>>> Nikon and Canon digital SLRs are used by 99% of the world's >>>>>> professionals. Why? Because they're extremely reliable, have >>>>>> extensive lens and accessory systems, and those companies are >>>>>> the cutting edge technological leaders....and despite all that, >>>>>> they cost less than Leicas. >>>>>> >>>>>> Professional photographers of all types are hurting economically >>>>>> today, and that is especially true of journalists. They're >>>>>> poorly paid, and newspapers have been shedding staff >>>>>> photographers to save money. Leica has simply priced itself out >>>>>> of the professional market. It really is that simple. On top of >>>>>> that, Leica's digital cameras have had a lot of well-publicised >>>>>> technical and reliability problems. Pros need cameras that >>>>>> "Just Work", every time. Canon and Nikon cameras "Just Work". >>>>>> The lenses are affordable. The image quality is magnificent. >>>>>> Using Nikon or Canon is a no-brainer. >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> Chris Crawford >>>>>> Fine Art Photography >>>>>> Fort Wayne, Indiana >>>>>> 260-437-8990 >>>>>> >>>>>> http://www.chriscrawfordphoto.com My portfolio >>>>>> >>>>>> http://blog.chriscrawfordphoto.com My latest work! >>>>>> >>>>>> http://www.facebook.com/pages/Christopher-Crawford/48229272798 >>>>>> Become a fan on Facebook >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On 11/29/12 8:41 PM, "David Ching" <davidhhching1 at yahoo.com.sg> >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> Come on, don't tease, tell us all. Which one/s? Why, if you >>>>>>> know the reasons. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> And why not Leicas? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> David Ching >>>>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> http://philipforrestphoto.wordpress.com/ >>>> http://gallery.leica-users.org/v/philforrest >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Leica Users Group. >>>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more >>>> information >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Leica Users Group. >>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information >> >> >> >> -- >> http://philipforrestphoto.wordpress.com/ >> http://gallery.leica-users.org/v/philforrest >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Leica Users Group. >> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information >> > > _______________________________________________ > Leica Users Group. > See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information