Archived posting to the Leica Users Group, 2012/11/12
[Author Prev] [Author Next] [Thread Prev] [Thread Next] [Author Index] [Topic Index] [Home] [Search]Can you guys take this pissing match off-list? Doug Herr Birdman of Sacramento http://www.wildlightphoto.com -----Original Message----- >From: Mark Rabiner <mark at rabinergroup.com> >Sent: Nov 12, 2012 7:43 PM >To: Leica Users Group <lug at leica-users.org> >Subject: Re: [Leica] Review of Fuji's new X-E1 with zoom lens. > >I apologize for not realizing you were this blazingly dense. > >Mark William Rabiner >Photography >http://gallery.leica-users.org/v/lugalrabs/ > > >> From: Jayanand Govindaraj <jayanand at gmail.com> >> Reply-To: Leica Users Group <lug at leica-users.org> >> Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2012 21:32:33 +0530 >> To: Leica Users Group <lug at leica-users.org> >> Subject: Re: [Leica] Review of Fuji's new X-E1 with zoom lens. >> >> How stupid of me! I wasn't aware that we were shooting for a mural at >> Grand Central Station. I was just assuming we were talking about prints, >> which of course, will be much smaller in size. Please go ahead and >> elucidate how you are going to shoot your murals. With a Leica M, I >> presume, that has not been released yet. I see B&H has it for pre-order, >> expected availability Feb 2013. Has Leica given you a prototype to help >> you >> out? With the new Summicron, no doubt. Can you please send me some DNGs so >> I can judge for myself, like Tina did with the Leica MM? Thanks a million. >> >> Cheers >> Jayanand >> >> On Mon, Nov 12, 2012 at 9:16 PM, Mark Rabiner <mark at rabinergroup.com> >> wrote: >> >>> I would hate to disturb you from you personal slamming diatribes that >>> you've >>> got all worked out to the fact that you do knee jerk slams whenever you >>> see >>> any of my posts and don't bother reading them its not about the issues of >>> which we are speaking but making personal just against me personally. >>> But a basic axiom of photography which believe it or not is the issue at >>> hand. >>> You want to shoot a mural for the wall of grand central station a Minox >>> is >>> not your first choice but as large a format as you've got accesses to. >>> If you are doing thumbnail sized jpegs for a website that sure use a >>> pinky >>> nail sensor. >>> That's all that's meant but the very basic and never before today >>> questioned >>> axiom of final output being a defining factor of photographic technique. >>> >>> But we're not talking about that are we we are just slamming me >>> personally! >>> >>> Mark William Rabiner >>> Photography >>> http://gallery.leica-users.org/v/lugalrabs/ >>> >>> >>>> From: Jayanand Govindaraj <jayanand at gmail.com> >>>> Reply-To: Leica Users Group <lug at leica-users.org> >>>> Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2012 21:03:33 +0530 >>>> To: Leica Users Group <lug at leica-users.org> >>>> Subject: Re: [Leica] Review of Fuji's new X-E1 with zoom lens. >>>> >>>> Mark, >>>> If only you had hands on experience on what you prattle on about, I >>>> would >>>> take you a lot more seriously. As it is, as far as I am concerned, you >>> are >>>> a humorous aside on the list, considering the fact that you have not >>>> even >>>> lifted any camera that you are so eager to expound on, nor seen any >>> output >>>> on which to base your flights of fancy, whether for the positive or the >>>> negative. Who can ever take you seriously, except at their own risk? Of >>>> course you suffer from Confirmation Bias, you talk yourself into >>> believing >>>> your own mythical positions! I suggest you give this book a good read >>>> and >>>> ruminate on it for a bit for your own good: >>>> >>>> >>> >http://www.amazon.com/Thinking-Fast-Slow-Daniel-Kahneman/dp/0374275637/ref=la>> >_ >>>> B001ILFNQG_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1352734206&sr=1-1 >>>> >>>> Cheers >>>> Jayanand >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On Mon, Nov 12, 2012 at 8:40 PM, Mark Rabiner <mark at rabinergroup.com> >>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> Actually Jayanand and Gerry the fact that photography is output >>> defined is >>>>> not really my little quirky opinion here that I came up with after two >>> cups >>>>> of coffee but a basic piece of photo teaching and technique since day >>> one >>>>> and has been discused on the lug for a decade as a starting point of >>> fact >>>>> that no ones ever thought to contest as to do so would be pure idiocy. >>>>> You sit down in your first photo class put your smart phones away the >>>>> teacher takes attendance and then says "first of all photography is an >>>>> output dependent thing". >>>>> " Confirmation Bias" is an exciting bit of rhetoric you've dug up it >>> simply >>>>> has nothing at all do do with my post which I doubt you'd even read. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Mark William Rabiner >>>>> Photography >>>>> http://gallery.leica-users.org/v/lugalrabs/ >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> From: Gerry Walden <gerry.walden at me.com> >>>>>> Reply-To: Leica Users Group <lug at leica-users.org> >>>>>> Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2012 06:26:39 +0000 >>>>>> To: Leica Users Group <lug at leica-users.org> >>>>>> Subject: Re: [Leica] Review of Fuji's new X-E1 with zoom lens. >>>>>> >>>>>> Absolutely! >>>>>> >>>>>> Gerry Walden >>>>>> +44 (0)23 8046 3076 or >>>>>> +44 (0)797 287 7932 >>>>>> www.gwpics.com >>>>>> >>>>>> On 12 Nov 2012, at 02:48, Jayanand Govindaraj <jayanand at gmail.com> >>>>> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> I am amazed at the amount of Confirmation Bias rampant on the list! >>> (-: >>>>>>> It is an exceedingly dangerous mindset.... >>>>>>> Cheers >>>>>>> Jayanand >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Mon, Nov 12, 2012 at 5:42 AM, Mark Rabiner <mark at >>>>>>> rabinergroup.com> >>>>> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Your whole photo deal is output defined. >>>>>>>> If all you're doing is uploading jpegs which are a few hundred >>>>>>>> pixies >>>>>>>> across >>>>>>>> then its not really worth it to spend a lot of money on good camera >>>>> bodies >>>>>>>> with larger sensors and glass. You can use a point and shoot with a >>>>> smaller >>>>>>>> sensor than 1.5 or 2x crop. If you are somehow making it so people >>> can >>>>>>>> download large files from your work then its up a notch. And >>>>>>>> Printing >>>>>>>> brings >>>>>>>> out the worst and best about your gear. So if you have a print >>>>> portfolio, >>>>>>>> you hang shows or otherwise you print a lot its worth it to be very >>>>>>>> selective about your gear. >>>>>>>> And I doubt there's going to be a better way to go then with a Leica >>> M >>>>> no >>>>>>>> number afterward and farily current Leica glass. >>>>>>>> Leica S though is going to be a big notch up from that. >>>>>>>> Would love to see direct comparisons between the same subject matter >>>>> shot >>>>>>>> with both systems. >>>>>>>> S and M. ( get it!?) >>>>>>>> And Leica M against canon and Nikon DSLR'S that everyone else is >>>>> shooting. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I cant wait to see my first Leica M movie. Shot with Summicrons. >>>>>>>> Reminds me of the taste of wild hickory nuts.... >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Mark William Rabiner >>>>>>>> Photography >>>>>>>> http://gallery.leica-users.org/v/lugalrabs/ >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> From: Bob Adler <rgacpa at gmail.com> >>>>>>>>> Reply-To: Leica Users Group <lug at leica-users.org> >>>>>>>>> Date: Sun, 11 Nov 2012 11:18:41 -0800 >>>>>>>>> To: Leica Users Group <lug at leica-users.org> >>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Leica] Review of Fuji's new X-E1 with zoom lens. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> We should bring our Leicas and Fuji's to the burning and then >>> compare >>>>>>>> prints!! >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Bob Adler >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On Nov 11, 2012, at 10:39 AM, Nathan Wajsman <photo at >>>>>>>>> frozenlight.eu> >>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> You are a heretic, to be burned at the stake. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Cheers, >>>>>>>>>> Nathan (who owns an M8 and an X100) >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Nathan Wajsman >>>>>>>>>> Alicante, Spain >>>>>>>>>> http://www.frozenlight.eu >>>>>>>>>> http://www.greatpix.eu >>>>>>>>>> PICTURE OF THE WEEK: http://www.fotocycle.dk/paws >>>>>>>>>> Blog: http://nathansmusings.wordpress.com/ >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> YNWA >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On Nov 11, 2012, at 7:24 PM, jon.streeter wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Is this why X100 images compare favorably with those from digital >>> M >>>>>>>> when >>>>>>>>>>> seen on line, or is it because images viewed on line really can't >>> be >>>>>>>> seen in >>>>>>>>>>> enough detail to-be judged? >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Sent from my Verizon Wireless Phone >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> ----- Reply message ----- >>>>>>>>>>> From: "Aram Langhans" <leica_r8 at hotmail.com> >>>>>>>>>>> To: "Leica Users Group" <lug at leica-users.org> >>>>>>>>>>> Subject: [Leica] Review of Fuji's new X-E1 with zoom lens. >>>>>>>>>>> Date: Sun, Nov 11, 2012 10:12 am >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Mark. Back in film days, the Leica quality was always with the >>>>> lens. >>>>>>>> All >>>>>>>>>>> cameras could shoot the same film and vary the exposure the same >>>>> way. >>>>>>>> The >>>>>>>>>>> lenses made the difference. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Now, with digital, there is one more variable between cameras. >>> The >>>>>>>> sensor >>>>>>>>>>> and firmware replace the universally available film. Leica has >>>>>>>>>>> to >>>>> get >>>>>>>> that >>>>>>>>>>> part at least as good as the competition for the lenses to make >>> the >>>>>>>>>>> difference again. Hope they can do it with the M and CMOS. They >>>>> are >>>>>>>>>>> competing with the big boys who have big bucks and lots of years >>> of >>>>>>>>>>> experience. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Aram >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> -------------------------------------------------- >>>>>>>>>>>> On 11 Nov, 2012, at 00:47, Mark Rabiner <mark at >>>>>>>>>>>> rabinergroup.com> >>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> I don't think any of them will really come close though. >>>>>>>>>>>>> They'll be smaller and lighter then an M. But the image quality >>>>> will >>>>>>>> of >> >>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>> M will be plainly visible. >>>>>>>>>>>>> Glaringly visible up from an APS- C camera. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Mark William Rabiner >>>>>>>>>>>>> Photography >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>> Leica Users Group. >>>>>>>>>>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more >>>>> information >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>> Leica Users Group. >>>>>>>>>>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more >>>>> information >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>> Leica Users Group. >>>>>>>>>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more >>> information >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> Leica Users Group. >>>>>>>>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more >>> information >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> Leica Users Group. >>>>>>>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> Leica Users Group. >>>>>>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> Leica Users Group. >>>>>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Leica Users Group. >>>>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information >>>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Leica Users Group. >>>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Leica Users Group. >>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Leica Users Group. >> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information > > > >_______________________________________________ >Leica Users Group. >See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information