Archived posting to the Leica Users Group, 2012/08/06

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Subject: [Leica] Times Photographer Is Arrested on Assignment in NY
From: photo.forrest at earthlink.net (Phil Forrest)
Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2012 16:56:38 -0400
References: <CC457C79.220D9%mark@rabinergroup.com> <20120806152412.7d75a430@linux-mh41.site> <024D36C1-5CE1-4EB5-9420-EB5297FAFF84@embarqmail.com>

This hypothetical situation is both specific continued harassment on the
part of the law enforcement officer as well as not a journalistic case.

Law enforcement does have the right and responsibility to prevent riots
as well. Speech is not protected if it is meant to incite riot.

Phil Forrest


On Mon, 6 Aug 2012 16:49:36 -0400
Ric Carter <ricc at embarqmail.com> wrote:

> Imagine:
> 
> A policeman wanting to prevent a riot follows an individual around
> and hits him in the face with a stick or tear gasses or restrains him
> every time he attempts to speak in public.
> 
> He takes the cop (LEO) to court.
> 
> The court finds that the cop acted improperly.
> 
> The policeman wanting to prevent a riot follows the individual around
> and hits him in the face with a stick or tear gasses or restrains him
> every time he attempts to speak in public.
> 
> He takes the cop (LEO) to court.
> 
> The court finds that the cop acted improperly.
> 
> Repeat ad infinitum.
> 
> The would be speaker has not been denied his freedom of speech since
> the court found in his favor and we have  "robust justice system"?
> 
> I can also understand the position of LEOs who want to do what they
> want to do.
> 
> Better discipline WITHIN agencies is an issue which needs dealing
> with--call it education if you wish.
> 
> ric
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On Aug 6, 2012, at 3:24 PM, Phil Forrest wrote:
> 
> > This will continue because there has been no case that has appealed
> > to a higher court and no court that is willing to try a case that
> > deals with rights we already have specifically enumerated in both
> > state and US Constitutions. 
> >> From a law enforcement point of view, this is an obstruction of
> >> justice
> > matter. From a press point of view it is a First Amendment matter. 
> > As long as we have a robust justice system that respects the First
> > Amendment we are protected. We are NOT specifically protected from
> > harassment by law enforcement if the issue is a law enforcement one.
> > If cases like these were to go to a higher court there is the risk
> > of our rights being further restricted so as long as we have a
> > right to appeal the obstruction of justice charges and get them
> > dropped (and every one has been dropped in the city of New York)
> > our system is working. The only thing that might help would be more
> > training for law enforcement officers.
> >> From my point of view, as someone who has worked in law enforcement
> > with the Navy, I completely understand the position of LEOs who are
> > wanting to remove all variables from a tense, possibly violent and
> > dangerous situation. Sometimes the press doesn't need closer access
> > to some scenes due to danger and the dynamic environment. A
> > journalist is also a person that the LEOs must protect in such
> > situations so the further complication detracts from them doing
> > their job. These are always cases with lots of nuance and the press
> > is usually very quick to point fingers at law enforcement but the
> > law enforcement point of view in-situ is never known but should be
> > considered before the LEO is condemned.
> > 
> > Phil Forrest
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > On Mon, 06 Aug 2012 13:51:53 -0400
> > Mark Rabiner <mark at rabinergroup.com> wrote:
> > 
> >> http://www.nytimes.com/2012/08/06/nyregion/robert-stolarik-times-photographe
> >> r-is-arrested-while-on-assignment-in-the-bronx.html?_r=1&nl=nyregion&emc=edi
> >> t_ur_20120806    or
> >> 
> >> http://tinyurl.com/d3mkqbz
> >> 
> >> 
> >> Not good news.
> >> 
> >> 
> >> 
> >> 
> >> Mark William Rabiner
> >> 
> >> 
> >> 
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Leica Users Group.
> >> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more
> >> information
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > -- 
> > http://philipforrestphoto.wordpress.com/
> > http://gallery.leica-users.org/v/philforrest
> > 
> > _______________________________________________
> > Leica Users Group.
> > See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Leica Users Group.
> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information



-- 
http://philipforrestphoto.wordpress.com/
http://gallery.leica-users.org/v/philforrest


In reply to: Message from mark at rabinergroup.com (Mark Rabiner) ([Leica] Times Photographer Is Arrested on Assignment in NY)
Message from photo.forrest at earthlink.net (Phil Forrest) ([Leica] Times Photographer Is Arrested on Assignment in NY)
Message from ricc at embarqmail.com (Ric Carter) ([Leica] Times Photographer Is Arrested on Assignment in NY)