Archived posting to the Leica Users Group, 2012/05/30

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Subject: [Leica] Endgadget on the MM
From: images at comporium.net (Tina Manley)
Date: Wed, 30 May 2012 17:56:06 -0400
References: <CA+yJO1DBCE+9KoozCQLYY4obJk_XJ7V-S26xmaYOhG87Ke+d_g@mail.gmail.com> <CBEC0CE2.1EEF0%mark@rabinergroup.com>

Mark -  I'm just going by what I see when I use both.  I have a Canon 5D
and 1DMII with CMOS sensors and Leica M9 and M8 and DMR with CCD sensors.
 When I look at the photos at 100%, I like the fine detail that I get with
CCD.  It could have something to do with the lenses, but I believe the
sensors are to blame or credit for a good bit of the detail.  If I had to
give up high ISO performance to get fine detail, I would do it - and have.
 It looks like that choice won't be required with the MM.

Tina

On Wed, May 30, 2012 at 5:44 PM, Mark Rabiner <mark at rabinergroup.com> 
wrote:

> Tina I don't believe that you and I and others on the LUG really know what
> it really means to be shooting with a CCD (charge coupled device) or a CMOS
> (complementary metal oxide semiconductor) image sensor unless we happen to
> be electronic computer engineers which few of us are.
> I'm just not buying it the people preferring the look of one over the
> other.
> Its the emperors new clothes. We pretend we are seeing things we  really
> can't.
> All we really know is how it effects our shooting.
> We are living in a world in which we are competing against photographers
> who
> can shoot at 5 EV's higher then we so far can. (M9 shooters vs. Canon/Nikon
> DSLR shooters)
> They are getting depth of friend and capturing action in the dark;
> While we are shooting wide open and hoping nobody moves.
>
> I think the M9 shooters who are able to upgrade to the new M9  Polychrome
> will be happy as clams. There is no downside. The upgrade will for sure be
> UP.
> We need to trust Leica for having some real intelligence and integrity.
> If they find a different nature of image sensor to be preferable then they
> proably know what they are talking about. They are in the camera business
> As are the 99.99% of photographers who are shooting the CMOS sensors as we
> speak. Hitting deadlines. ...Seeing their results on the web and printed
> media around the world.
>
>
> http://www.teledynedalsa.com/corp/markets/ccd_vs_cmos.aspx
> - - from my iRabs.
> Mark Rabiner
>
>
> > From: Tina Manley <images at comporium.net>
> > Reply-To: Leica Users Group <lug at leica-users.org>
> > Date: Wed, 30 May 2012 17:22:35 -0400
> > To: Leica Users Group <lug at leica-users.org>
> > Subject: Re: [Leica] Endgadget on the MM
> >
> > I am one.  I want to be able to take B&W photos with my Leica digital
> > camera that equal those I shot with B&W film.  The M9 is wonderful, but
> the
> > high ISOs leave a lot to be desired.  I could push TMax 400 to 800 or
> even
> > use TMax 3200 and still get acceptable negatives.  I can't get acceptable
> > photos from the M9 at 3200 ISO.  It's marginal at 800.  If the Leica MM
> > delivers B&W photos that have shadow detail without excessive noise at
> 3200
> > or even 1600, it will be well worth the price to me.  I'm looking forward
> > to more dynamic range and lots of fine detail at higher ISOs.  The DNGs
> > posted show this is possible with the MM.
> >
> > I don't want a CMOS sensor.  I've already compared the two and much
> prefer
> > what I get from CCD.  Why would I want anything that is already available
> > with the Canon I have and hate?
> >
> > Tina
> >
> > On Wed, May 30, 2012 at 5:08 PM, Mark Rabiner <mark at rabinergroup.com>
> wrote:
> >
> >> What's on my mind is the people who would buy the Leica M9 Monochrom
> would
> >> be who?
> >> What's on my mind is the state of black and white image making after a
> >> decade of people shooting digital many of them like myself who were
> black
> >> and white specialists in film didn't feel the urge to specialize in
> black
> >> and white in digital.
> >>
> >> With Erwin mentioning stuff like the new sensor on the M9 will be CMOS
> it
> >> appears that the way long overdue sensor for the M9 is not a permeant
> >> invisible dream.:
> >> "This intention has been stated several times by high-ranking Leica
> >> officials and during the Berlin interview sessions Mr. Kaufmann made
> hardly
> >> disguised remarks in this direction."
> >>
> >> So a new sensor competitive with the best from Canon and Nikon is not a
> fig
> >> Newton of someone else's imagination.
> >> Its history which just hasn't gotten around to happening yet.
> >>
> >> You can have that kind of power ahead of time if you can get an M9
> >> Monochrom.
> >> And feel what its like to shoot like you did in the 1990's.
> >> When filters  meant something.
> >> If I was a few notches higher in the dead presidents deparment I'd
> >> certainly
> >> get one.
> >> But if I had the cash in pocket I'd let it sit and fester till the M9
> goes
> >> CMOS.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> - - from my iRabs.
> >> Mark Rabiner
> >> http://gallery.leica-users.org/v/lugalrabs/springdays/
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Leica Users Group.
> >> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> > --
> > Tina Manley, ASMP
> > www.tinamanley.com
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Leica Users Group.
> > See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Leica Users Group.
> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information
>
>


-- 
Tina Manley, ASMP
www.tinamanley.com


Replies: Reply from imagist3 at mac.com (George Lottermoser) ([Leica] Endgadget on the MM)
Reply from mark at rabinergroup.com (Mark Rabiner) ([Leica] Endgadget on the MM)
In reply to: Message from images at comporium.net (Tina Manley) ([Leica] Endgadget on the MM)
Message from mark at rabinergroup.com (Mark Rabiner) ([Leica] Endgadget on the MM)