Archived posting to the Leica Users Group, 2011/11/03

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Subject: [Leica] 1.8 vs. 1.4!?!?
From: jhnichols at lighttube.net (Jim Nichols)
Date: Thu, 3 Nov 2011 16:49:05 -0500
References: <BLU116-W10E288CD5BDB1E7AB92EBC2D50@phx.gbl><p0624080acad8a6fd27f6@[192.168.1.104]> <C483B2D9-F8B3-4394-92C9-65B0940F0CBB@sfr.fr>

For sharper images, use the 55mm 1.8.  I have them both.  I find that 
sharpness trumps speed and bokeh in producing images that I am happy with.

Jim Nichols
Tullahoma, TN USA
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "philippe.amard" <philippe.amard at sfr.fr>
To: "Leica Users Group" <lug at leica-users.org>
Sent: Thursday, November 03, 2011 4:07 PM
Subject: Re: [Leica] 1.8 vs. 1.4!?!?


> Now some manufacturers - Pentax to name just one - had 50mm 1.4 and  55mm 
> 1.8 on their catalogues: which of these offered better bokeh or  faster 
> takes?
>
> I'm so happy to have a full auto mode on my camera right now.
>
> Philippe looking for aspirin and about to call Doctor Ted
>
>
>
> Le 3 nov. 11 ? 21:40, Herbert Kanner a ?crit :
>
>> After this, the dead horse should stay dead.
>>
>> While your mathematics is correct, I differ with your conclusions.  It 
>> relates to a distinction between "f numbers" and "stops". Agreed: 
>> reciprocal of the square of the f number is proportional to the  amount 
>> of light getting through. But the question was: "What  fraction of a stop 
>> is the difference between two f numbers?".
>>
>> Now, the stops on a lens aperture ring are an arbitrary choice, 
>> general;y meaning a factor of two in exposure. So going, say three  stops 
>> toward smaller f numbers doubles the exposure three times, or  2 to the 
>> power 3. Now, let's think about this example of three  stops: f/4, f/5.6, 
>> and f/11, pretend we don't know that those three  numbers are engraved on 
>> the aperture ring, and ask: "How many stops  are the distance between f/4 
>> and f/11. First, realize that the  conventional set of stops aren't 
>> exactly a factor 2 in exposure  because the lens manufacturers in their 
>> wisdom wanted the f numbers  to not have more than two digits; who would 
>> like 3.99762 engraved on  their aperture ring? So, f/4 to f/11 is 
>> actually a change in  exposure of 7.5625, close enough to 8.
>>
>> Next let's go backward, again pretending ignorance of aperture ring 
>> numbers, and ask how many "stops" change is f/4 to f/11. take 11/4  and 
>> square it, getting, as before, 7.5625. Take the logarithm (base  2) of 
>> 7.5625, and you get 2.918, which is the actual theoretical  number of 
>> stops, and close enough to the three notches on the ring.
>>
>> That is the way I calculated the number of stops between 1.8 and 1.4.
>>
>> How do you calculate log(base 2) of something. Just divide its  log(base 
>> 10) by log of 2 (base 10)
>>
>> Herb
>>
>>
>>
>>> Time to beat a dead horse!  If anyone is interested:
>>>
>>> It is all geometry, namely the area of a circle.
>>>
>>> For each f-stop, we have double the light.  The f-stop is related to
>>> the size of the aperture, which is approximated as a circle.  The
>>> amount of light coming is proportional to the circle's area, which
>>> you may recall is pi times the radius squared, pi*r^2.  We use the
>>> f# for the equivalent radius.
>>>
>>> Thus, starting with f1, and r = 1, the area is pi*r^2 = pi*1*1 = pi,
>>> as the relative amount of light.
>>>
>>> For an amount of light 2*pi (next f-stop, double the light), pi*r^2
>>> = 2 pi.  Divide both sides by pi, and you get r^2 =2.  r = the
>>> square root of 2, or 1.414?  f1.4 is the next stop.
>>>
>>> This is where the 1.4 factor George mentioned comes from; the square
>>> root of 2 is 1.414.
>>>
>>> Next f-stop, double the light again: pi*r^2 = 2*2 pi. r^2  = 4, f2
>>> is the next stop.
>>>
>>> So, if you want fractional stops:
>>>
>>> 1/3 stop:   Square root of 1.333 = 1.15456
>>> 1/2 stop:   Square root of 1.5     = 1.22474
>>> 2/3 stop:   Square root of 1.667 = 1.29112
>>>
>>> So going back to Mark's f1.4 example:
>>> 1/3 stop slower = 1.414 * 1.15456 = f1.633 or f1.6
>>> 1/2 stop slower = 1.414 * 1.22474 = f1.732 or f 1.7
>>> 2/3 stop slower = 1.414 * 1.29112 = f1.828 or f1.8
>>> 1 stop slower = 1.414 * 1.414 =  f2.0
>>>
>>>
>>> Matt
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Nov 2, 2011, at 5:32 PM, Mark Rabiner wrote:
>>>
>>> > I looked up f 1.8 vs. 1.4 thinking it was between a half and a
>>> quarter of a
>>> > stop and they are saying its 2/3rds!?!?! Anybody know that that's
>>> true?
>>> >
>>> > Where is there a photo calculator that tells you these things?!?!?
>>>
>>> I always thought the basic math for 1 f stop revolved around a  factor 
>>> of 1.4.
>>> 1.4 x 1.4 = 1.96
>>> 1.8 / 1.4 = 1.29
>>>
>>> so - yes - 2/3 would seem close enough for?
>>> what? I'm not sure.
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>> George Lottermoser
>>> george at imagist.com
>>> http://www.imagist.com
>>> http://www.imagist.com/blog
>>> http://www.linkedin.com/in/imagist
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Leica Users Group.
>>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information
>>
>> -- 
>> Herbert Kanner
>> kanner at acm.org
>> 650-326-8204
>>
>> Question authority and the authorities will question you.
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Leica Users Group.
>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information
>
> _______________________________________________
> Leica Users Group.
> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information
>
> 




Replies: Reply from mark at rabinergroup.com (Mark Rabiner) ([Leica] 1.8 vs. 1.4!?!?)
In reply to: Message from filippiniaia at hotmail.com (Matthew B. Filippini) ([Leica] 1.8 vs. 1.4!?!?)
Message from kanner at acm.org (Herbert Kanner) ([Leica] 1.8 vs. 1.4!?!?)
Message from philippe.amard at sfr.fr (philippe.amard) ([Leica] 1.8 vs. 1.4!?!?)