Archived posting to the Leica Users Group, 2011/07/22

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Subject: [Leica] Lusting for an M9
From: mark at rabinergroup.com (Mark Rabiner)
Date: Sat, 23 Jul 2011 02:01:15 -0400

That's what I'd expect Bob thanks! I may have come upon some wrong info on
the internet... Having the verisimilitude of someone who had a clue what
they were talking about.


Mark William Rabiner




> From: Bob Adler <rgacpa at yahoo.com>
> Reply-To: Leica Users Group <lug at leica-users.org>
> Date: Fri, 22 Jul 2011 20:25:51 -0700 (PDT)
> To: Leica Users Group <lug at leica-users.org>
> Subject: Re: [Leica] Lusting for an M9
> 
> In my experience medium format (MF) is exactly the same. Push the 
> histogram as
> far to the right as you can without ANY clipping.
> The one difference I see in MF is the the incredible amount of shadow
> information you can pull over from the left. It's like magic; they out to 
> come
> out with a MF histogram that has like dotted lines to the left to show you 
> how
> far over you really do have data...
> Bob
>  Bob Adler
> Palo Alto, CA
> http://www.rgaphoto.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ________________________________
> From: Mark Rabiner <mark at rabinergroup.com>
> To: Leica Users Group <lug at leica-users.org>
> Sent: Fri, July 22, 2011 6:20:36 PM
> Subject: Re: [Leica] Lusting for an M9
> 
> Let me just say that I also treat digital shooting like its slide film
> exposing for the highlights or in other terms placing them carefully and
> letting the shadows pretty much fall where they may as they can invariably
> be brought up later.
> I only like to say this at this point because to me basic point like this 
> is
> not a clear consensus yet out there.  If I mention this on the list I'll 
> get
> plenty of argument. But I've been shooting like this for years and I feel
> very secure in it.
> 
> But I've never shot medium format digital.
> And I've heard  though that in medium format digital work its somehow
> basically different. And that its more important to place shadows and the
> highlights can be delta with later.  How or why that could be different I
> cant guess as you treat small format film exposure the same as you'd treat
> large format filim.
> As you're experienced in medium format work, Paul perhaps you'll  know if
> that dichotomy really exists. Now I'm looking up dichotomy .... Yep! Right
> word!
> 
> 
> Mark William Rabiner
> 
> 
> 
>> From: Paul Roark <roark.paul at gmail.com>
>> Reply-To: Leica Users Group <lug at leica-users.org>
>> Date: Fri, 22 Jul 2011 17:26:37 -0700
>> To: Leica Users Group <lug at leica-users.org>
>> Subject: Re: [Leica] Lusting for an M9
>> 
>> Michiel Fokkema <michiel.fokkema at gmail.com> wrote:
>> 
>>> Do you think the M9 high iso perfomance is any good?
>> 
>> 
>> I find it ironic that Leica uses CCD technology, which excels at its
>> native ISO, but is not as good at high ISO as CMOS technology.  For a
>> landscape shooter like me, CCD is ideal.  But for street/available
>> light shooters or wherever extremely high speed is needed, CMOS might
>> be a better solution.
>> 
>> CCD must do its amplification after the signal is transferred off  the
>> sensor, and that transfer is where  lot of noise seems to be acquired.
>>  So, I wondered how much difference there would be between a neutral
>> gray that was amplified in camera compared to one that is amplified in
>> Photoshop.  To explore this, I set the M9 exposure manually for
>> neutral gray at 2500 ISO and took a shot of an frosted/opal glass over
>> the lens (totally smooth, out of focus image).  I then moved the ISO
>> back to 160 and took a shot at the same exposure settings.  The 160
>> ISO image was near black when initially opened (ACR 3.x, with black
>> slider all the way to the left).  But when curves were used to take
>> the 160 ISO gray up to the same level as the 2500 ISO gray, the noise
>> levels in the images were essentially the same.  See
>> http://www.paulroark.com/BW-Info/CCD-iso-v-curves.jpg
>> 
>> While the in-camera amplifier does ultimately help the image quality
>> with even darker values, the message from the experiment is, I think,
>> rather important for those of us who shoot M9s.  I don't bracket much
>> any more.  Rather, I set the exposure for the highlights like I used
>> to do with slide film.  I manually "expose right", checking the
>> histogram often, and just let the low values fall where they may.
>> Amplification in PS is, over the ranges of values I've recently run
>> into, good enough that HDR is not needed and would not accomplish all
>> that much anyway.  This is very different than the style than is
>> needed for CMOS, and I prefer it to HDR and bracketing.
>> 
>> Paul
>> www.PaulRoark.com
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
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> 
> 
> 
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> 
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In reply to: Message from rgacpa at yahoo.com (Bob Adler) ([Leica] Lusting for an M9)