Archived posting to the Leica Users Group, 2011/03/11

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Subject: [Leica] IMGS: check out Keith Wessel's photographs
From: s.dimitrov at charter.net (Slobodan Dimitrov)
Date: Fri, 11 Mar 2011 15:33:26 -0800
References: <38C7FB98-0C4A-4D57-BF3E-AF6432C7F390@mac.com> <4D798495.6010704@panix.com> <F1C731CE-FC27-45CA-B521-4DC41AEC8698@mac.com> <444198.62728.qm@web86707.mail.ird.yahoo.com> <018b01cbe035$f069dfb0$d13d9f10$@earthlink.net>

One could always go back to what taxes replaced, the corv?e.
Get to keep your money, and get a good work out:-)
S.d.


On Mar 11, 2011, at 1:47 PM, Frank Filippone wrote:

> What does collective bargaining have to do with this argument?
> 
> If, like most Engineers ( for  example), the public employee had to
> negotiate for himself, would it make any difference in the overall
> government fiscal picture??   No.  
> 
> The company's advantage ( or in this case, Government's advantage) to
> collective bargaining is to make the process of employee relations easier
> and more efficient .....one stop ...... rather than 10,000 or 20,000, or
> whatever individual negotiations.....   The disadvantage is that the
> contract is so large that it is close to impossible to renegotiate 
> anything.
> Why should a contract be renegotiated?  Because there is a change in the
> world that is affecting the contract: NO MONEY.  Something needs to be done
> to balance or attempt to balance budgets, and there are only a few ways to
> save money.
> 
> Let's look at the issue of breaking off collective bargaining as a way to
> correct past cost ( read that  as .. payroll and pension)  increases in
> contract negotiation....  now you can go ahead with your arguments....  as
> an issue of contract negotiation and especially re-negotiation..... to
> reduce costs.
> 
> In truth, something NEEDS to be done to balance the recent lower income of
> government taxes....   it is now out of hand..... as shown by the number of
> states that are about to go bankrupt ( in the technical sense) by decreased
> tax income and increased or fixed but too high spending.....  Think of it 
> as
> your family finances... what is the first thing you do if you have a big
> drop in income?  You STOP SPENDING.  And then you look for ways to balance
> your personal expenses.....  Why should anyone think Government is or 
> should
> be different?
> 
> Government spend in 3 ways.....debt repayment on previous projects, current
> projects, and pensions.  Debt repayment is renegotiated by calling higher
> yielding bonds and issuing lower yielding ones..  Current projects can be
> scaled back or cancelled ( ever see that one happen?)  Pensions are one big
> pot of $$$ that could be modified to save costs.
> 
> Pension reform is coming..... if only by the mandate of bankruptcy... no 
> tax
> revenue money = no government money = no pension money = no payouts.... 
> 
> Don't even think about floating bonds to make the issue go away... been
> there, did that, it is what put us in the mess we are in right now.....it
> only puts off the inevitable 
> 
> Sorry for all of you out there that do get a pension ( teachers, other
> government employees, and you too commercial Union pensioneers, etc....) 
> but
> the reality is that we are living longer,  we put $$$ into the system with
> the "old" statistics, and the funds that are there are  not getting the
> returns they used to....
> 
> When it runs out, it runs out.
> 
> Pension is NOT a bottomless pit.
> 
> Collective bargaining is or should be efficient, not unassailable......
> 
> Frank Filippone
> Red735i at earthlink.net
> 
> 
> 
> public employees are taxpayers.
> reducing their income further reduces tax revenue, as well as spending
> within the economy.
> 
> It seems extremely short sighted
> to imagine that stripping anyone's bargaining rights and decimating their
> income some how equates to "standing up for the taxpayer;"
> unless you're referring to corporate and mega-wealth tax dodgers as
> taxpayers.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Leica Users Group.
> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information

Slobodan Dimitrov
Long Beach, CA





Replies: Reply from imagist3 at mac.com (George Lottermoser) ([Leica] IMGS: check out Keith Wessel's photographs)
In reply to: Message from imagist3 at mac.com (George Lottermoser) ([Leica] IMGS: check out Keith Wessel's photographs)
Message from shino at panix.com (Rei Shinozuka) ([Leica] IMGS: check out Keith Wessel's photographs)
Message from imagist3 at mac.com (George Lottermoser) ([Leica] IMGS: check out Keith Wessel's photographs)
Message from frank.dernie at btinternet.com (FRANK DERNIE) ([Leica] IMGS: check out Keith Wessel's photographs)
Message from red735i at earthlink.net (Frank Filippone) ([Leica] IMGS: check out Keith Wessel's photographs)