Archived posting to the Leica Users Group, 2010/07/20

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Subject: [Leica] Altered Photo Ric and reality
From: chs2018 at med.cornell.edu (Chris Saganich)
Date: Tue, 20 Jul 2010 12:37:23 -0400
References: <AANLkTin8h0C9qYLdXaQaTpUY0zoOeVwIkB2Jn0wdoDLp@mail.gmail.com> <E9F63B3B-2964-4BDE-9034-726315CDA4F7@embarqmail.com>

The reality argument may work if we think of the image as an object 
that exists.  The image had a prior existence before being 
altered.  I could for example take a print, cut it up into pieces and 
tape it back together haphazardly then submit it for 
publication.  The stealth quality of electronic alteration isn't 
fundamentally different only easier to conceal or cause 
confusion.  One can not call the former and latter object the same 
object.  The first object conveyed the golfer with his caddy in the 
background obviously sharing the moment of victory.  The golfer and 
his caddy work together and are a team.  There is emotional 
involvement, their worlds are intimately intertwined, etc.  The 
second object removes the caddy's involvement denying his role as an 
integral part of the victory, undermining the relationship between a 
golfer and caddy, re scripting the victory as an individual one 
rather then a team effort.  In a word altering what is commonly 
considered the normal relationship between a caddy and a golfer.  Of 
course this is only relevant if such a relationship existed.

At 12:12 PM 7/20/2010, you wrote:

>I would re frame the argument as one of justice for the individuals 
>denial of existence in that moment of time rather then an alteration 
>of reality.  I think we all agree that reality doesn't have a fixed 
>existence but people do.  One can't have a phoney concept of reality 
>unless reality can be shown to be a predicate function. In the film 
>Platoon when the bad guy said, "I am reality",  we can't take him to 
>be anything but a psychopath.  So, using an argument about reality 
>isn't appropriate, rather there is a fundamental injustice be 
>committed to those eliminated from the moment, an existential homocide.
>
>
>At 11:19 AM 7/20/2010, you wrote:
>>"In adherence with our zero tolerance policy on photo manipulation"
>>
>>It's living in a fool's paradise or lying to the clientele or 
>>having NO concept of what photos are
>>
>>But, we've had this discussion many times without conclusion -- mot 
>>recently with an identical problem--someone removed from the picture
>>
>>It's all about some phoney concept of reality that does not in reality 
>>exist
>>
>>they're pictures, not reality, but impressions of it rendered by 
>>people with opinions
>>
>>The only way to avoid that is to place the viewer at the point of 
>>action, in which case you don't need the photographer
>>
>>ric
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>On Jul 20, 2010, at 11:06 AM, Tina Manley wrote:
>>
>> >
>> > So where do you draw the line?
>> >
>> > 
>> http://pdnedu.blogs.com/pdn_pulse/2010/07/getty-photographer-fired-over-altered-golf-photo.html
>>
>>
>>_______________________________________________
>>Leica Users Group.
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>
>
>_______________________________________________
>Leica Users Group.
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Replies: Reply from imagist3 at mac.com (George Lottermoser) ([Leica] Altered Photo Ric and reality)
Reply from ricc at embarqmail.com (Ric Carter) ([Leica] Altered Photo Ric and reality)
In reply to: Message from images at comporium.net (Tina Manley) ([Leica] Altered Photo)
Message from ricc at embarqmail.com (Ric Carter) ([Leica] Altered Photo)