Archived posting to the Leica Users Group, 2010/01/29

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Subject: [Leica] M9, lag time, perception and other things
From: grduprey at mchsi.com (grduprey at mchsi.com)
Date: Fri, 29 Jan 2010 17:15:05 -0600 (CST)

This may be true, but as Ted, Steve, and myself as well as many others have 
said if it does not effect your photography, as seen by results of what you 
capture and what you wanted to capture then who really cares?  The number of 
times I miss a shot due to this shutter lag is almost zero.  Most, if not 
all of my misses are due to my own fumbling, and not anything due to the 
camera, in this case the M8.

Gene

----- Original Message -----
From: "Robert Meier" <robertmeier at usjet.net>
To: "Leica Users Group" <lug at leica-users.org>
Sent: Friday, January 29, 2010 11:55:42 AM GMT -06:00 US/Canada Central
Subject: Re: [Leica] M9, lag time, perception and other things

Ted,

You're approaching this as a subjective matter, what your experience  
is and what it seems like to you.   That's of course completely  
legitimate.   But it has been presented as an objective matter of  
timing the shutter lag, a matter of milliseconds rather than a matter  
of feelings. That, of course, is also entirely legitimate, and is a  
different way of approaching it.   The objective approach deals in  
observable and measurable facts, not feelings.   So it's not  
surprising that conclusions differ.

Robert

On Jan 29, 2010, at 11:33 AM, <tedgrant at shaw.ca> wrote:

> Gary Todoroff offered interesting testimomial. However, are we not  
> talking about two different camera systems?
>
> One, the M8-9 rangefinder camera with nothing flipping up and down?  
> Compared to an SLR of some kind with flipping mirrors and whatever  
> extra screens that move about? Is that not correct? Different systems?
>
> My gut feeling is the more things to go click-clack in the night as  
> the shutter is released the greater the opportunity for LAG-TIME to  
> occur?  I can understand a lag time occurring. But the M8-9 is  
> camera to eye, quick focus.... click! Done! And if there is a delay  
> I don't doubt these are as much human reactions involved in what  
> the photographer sees and by the time his nervous system creates  
> pressure on finger tip to push click!
>
> And this with the minds eye re-calling "just the moment" seen  
> compared to the taken image. If one is experiencing this regularly  
> here's a tip how to speed your tripping and nervous system up.
>
> Stand on the side of a highway and focus on the front of on coming  
> traffic and do this until you can get 36 rams in a row sharply in  
> focus. It works! As it's an old training exercise I have always  
> done for years before going to cover world international sports  
> events as tee Olympics. You will be surprised how much  faster you  
> become in "SEE-SHOOT-SHARP!"
>
> So far with my M8 I have absolutely no sense of so-called milli- 
> second lost moment of what I saw and reacted to faster than I  
> breath and my heart beats. This is why I put as much of the LAG- 
> TIME back on the shoulders of the photographer than blaming the  
> camera. Meaured or otherwise, we humans see and shoot or don't  
> shoot as fast as some of us think we do.
>
> And this is why over the years I have consistently offered.... "YOU  
> CAN'T THINK AND SHOOT!" Nor can you think and bat in baseball as  
> Yogi Berra offered. There isn't any question, we as humans time  
> measured or otherwise, have different see-shoot nerve systems of re- 
> action time and this little nerve triggering system is what make  
> great sports photographers  better than 99% of all others. Their  
> nerve system  re-action.
>
> I trust this is somewhere along the lines of your thoughts and  
> experience.
>
> But from this side of the screen I can honestly say I have never  
> experienced this phenomena knowingly with an M8 or M9.
>
> cheers,
> ted
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Leica Users Group.
> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information


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