[Leica] Women

[glehrer at san.rr.com (Jerry Lehrer)]

Phil,

Your message is excruciating to read.

Jerry


Philip F wrote:
> Let me preface this with the statement that I'm not trying to be hurtful 
> at all. Just posing some questions to the list about "proper" "street 
> photography" and were we all draw the line between art, documentation and 
> objectification.
>
> I've mentioned this before on the LUG with it only to be swept aside 
> quickly but didn't have my questions answered then and still I'm not 
> having my questions answered now. so at the risk of castigating myself 
> among this community I pose the question: "If were to take a photo of a 
> woman's bottom with my Leica is it street photography?" Further: "If I 
> were to ask that woman before I took the photo if i could do so, would she 
> allow me?" Further still: "If I took the photo with my nearly silent 
> digital rangefinder THEN told her and showed her the photo, would she 
> approve or would I get slapped/arrested/have my camera confiscated or 
> destroyed?"
> Yes, i am aware that I'm asking questions of morality based upon my own 
> beliefs and as much as I don't want to impress them upon anyone else, i 
> strongly believe that photographers all over the world have a duty to be 
> respectful in their work and respectful towards other people. I may be 
> guilty of this in some very few instances but I also don't want to be 
> complicit in this behavior and further validate it. The taking of photos 
> in this manner actually does harm to the rights of photographers around 
> the world. Making the case that this is not a social more or convention in 
> other countries only serves to prove that objectification in those places 
> is the norm and is acceptable. 
> As English is the language of the LUG, the very nature of calling them 
> "senoritas" takes away from them being women. it makes them "other" and as 
> such more acceptable to objectify. It is a long established tactic of 
> distancing the subject of conversation to create an other and feeds 
> sexism, racism and all those other traits which we claim to be making our 
> way past in the 21st century. It's a way to make her not a woman but an 
> acceptable object. If there were more women on the LUG would we see as 
> much of this? Would it be as accepted? If the language of the LUG were 
> Spanish would it be as accepted?
> Its objectification is what it is. Sorry, but the few years I've been here 
> on the the LUG I've seen my fair share of very non-interactive photos from 
> afar with the celebrated 85mm Sonnar or 90mm whatnot. Who are we kidding 
> when talking about the "low contrast" or bokeh or whatever smokescreen we 
> all put up to allow ourselves to gaze without guilt or shame on a blatant 
> photo of a woman's ass? I don't want to be pushing my morals on people but 
> this is not photojournalism or street photography or whatever you want to 
> call it. Its borderline lecherous subversive image capture is what it is. 
> All the talk of subtle tones and resolution and all that jazz are just up 
> there to make us feel less dirty in our own viewing of the photo. 
> Sometimes when I take/took photos of that part of women, they have often 
> been tied up & suspended completely nude or almost so, but knew that I was 
> there, hired to make those photos. There was a sort of pact of personal 
> integrity and each other's morals th
>  at the model and I had between each other. In spite of the release form 
> and legal documents, if I were to make any of them uncomfortable for any 
> reason, I'm out of there. This street photography is not ironic or cheeky 
> or academic or making some statement other than a woman has a nice bottom. 
> That's just not the best way to pursue street photography if you were to 
> ask me. 
> I'm disappointed in what this esteemed community finds acceptable and 
> while I'll not quit the list, I'll not  be complicit either.
> Again, I'm not out to hurt anyone. Just to maybe open some eyes to what I 
> view as photographic hypocrisy and lack of respect.
> Phil Forrest 
>
>
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