Archived posting to the Leica Users Group, 2009/07/01
[Author Prev] [Author Next] [Thread Prev] [Thread Next] [Author Index] [Topic Index] [Home] [Search]Kevin, I forgot to add - I would like that "starting point" bibliography... Cheers Jayanand On Wed, Jul 1, 2009 at 10:42 AM, K Landdeck <bamboozld at gmail.com> wrote: > Long-time lurker, first time poster ... so I hope this isn't too abrupt of > a first-post, especially as it's partially OT. :-) > > As a historian of modern China finishing my dissertation at UCB, I have to > chime in and say that the often invoked Mao example when talking about Nazi > atrocities is based almost entirely on misconceptions and misinformation. > > The people who died under Mao were almost all the result of misguided > policies (economic and political) in the context of a very complex > political > situation. To put it in the same terms as the holocaust and Hitler's > military aggression in Europe is to completely obscure the distinction > between deliberate attempts at extermination and poor policy-making, > between > intention and unintended consequences, as well as to misread the actual > operation of power in communist China when compared to the Nazi > dictatorship. Mao was rarely in control of his own party, nor even fully > informed as to the conditions in the countryside that led to the famine and > death tolls in the Great Leap Forward and the violence in the Cultural > Revolution. Whatever his follies, mistakes, and lust for personal power, > Mao was not a monster out to exterminate millions of people. Rhetorically > it sounds good, but it does violence to historical understanding to imply > that the actions and motivations of Mao and the CCP/PRC were analogous to > Hitler's and the Nazi Party/Government. > > I would be happy to supply a "starting point" bibliography for anyone who > would actually take the time to read some well researched analyses of the > GLF and GPCR, instead of just spouting "common knowledge", which is common > mainly in the sense of being based on very superficial, and often outright > wrong, information. (Sadly, the state of education on China is abysmal in > most of the world and as a result such sloppy comparisons between > Hitler-Mao > or Stalin-Mao are made often, even in places like the NYT and other venues > that should have better research staffs). > > The larger point Jayanand is trying to make, however, I agree with. As a > historian (again), I find it painful to see anyone advocating the > destruction of historical traces just because they have negative > associations as it only hastens historical amnesia. This seems especially > dangerous because we selectively ignore all sorts of other items that are > blotted with their past on a daily basis: are all people who collect > Vietnam > era memorabilia suspect because of, and complicit with, the napalming of > Vietnamese villages carried out by the US Air Force? How about WW2 era > items from the US bombing command, since they deliberately firebombed > Japanese cities killing tens of thousands of civilians, even children? If > my grandfather was involved in those raids and I wanted to collect a bomber > captain's pistol would that make me complicit in those actions? How about > the virtual extermination of native Americans in California (which also had > a death toll in the millions)? Anyone who collects items from this segment > of the past is morally suspect? Where does this end? > > I find it ironic that one of the most misguided policies of the Cultural > Revolution was precisely the same kind of judging of people's motives for > having possessions as I see in this discussion: having bourgeois items (or > even things produced by a capitalist country) meant, a priori, one was a > capitalist and hence discriminated against. > > And then, it seems to me that there are plenty of far more pressing issues > (some mentioned by Jayanand) involving real tyranny and oppression today > that we can be outraged over, rather than a few cameras with a swastika on > them from half a century ago. > > To keep this somewhat photography related: I do have a small gallery on the > LUG site that I am slowly adding to. It's mainly conventional street stuff > shot on film with an M4 (and a mix of Zeiss/CV/Canon glass) here in San > Francisco. :-) http://gallery.leica-users.org/v/shudaizi/ > > > respectfully (from a LUG newb), > > Kevin Landdeck > > ============= > Only connect. > ============= > bamboozld at gmail.com > > shudaizi photography: > http://www.flickr.com/photos/shudaizi/ > > > > > > > > On Jun 30, 2009, at 8:25 PM, Jayanand Govindaraj wrote: > > Douglas, >> I am sure that an ordinary Hindu would not mind carrying a camera with a >> swastika at all - in all probability, he will be totally ignorant of the >> Nazi connection. There are a lot of Hindus, Buddhists and Jains in the >> world! >> >> Its all a question of the winners who write history and influence the >> thinking of the succeeding generations - the 'good' guys and the 'bad' >> guys >> is only your point of view, it is seldom very clear cut, except to a >> propaganda machine. Mao killed a lot more of his citizens than Hitler did, >> but none of us think twice about buying Chinese made goods, essentially >> made >> under the same regime. Don't you have the same revulsion when you walk >> into >> Wal Mart? >> >> Multinational firms have traditionally been remarkably free of ethical >> considerations relative to the boss' bonus, i.e. the bottom line. A lot of >> the consumer items you buy have been made in Gulag like working conditions >> all over the world. There are companies who have marketed infant food in >> Asia & Africa that had been banned in Europe and the USA. Food grains are >> destroyed and burnt to keep prices up for farmers, rather than send it >> free >> to the hungry all over the world. Is that not revolting? Will you boycott >> such companies/regimes? Or just pay lip service? >> >> Cheers >> Jayanand >> >> >> On Wed, Jul 1, 2009 at 7:55 AM, Douglas Nygren <dnygr at cshore.com> >> wrote: >> >> In an age when people wear labels as if they were branded, why would any >>> sane person want to be seen holding a camera with a Swaktika on it? >>> >>> These cameras are damaged goods pure and simple. It's not the cameras' >>> fault. Cameras made at the same time but do not bear bear the Swastika >>> don't >>> bear the burden of the symbol as much. >>> >>> Doug >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Leica Users Group. >>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information >>> >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> Leica Users Group. >> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information >> > > > _______________________________________________ > Leica Users Group. > See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information >