Archived posting to the Leica Users Group, 2009/06/30
[Author Prev] [Author Next] [Thread Prev] [Thread Next] [Author Index] [Topic Index] [Home] [Search]Long-time lurker, first time poster ... so I hope this isn't too abrupt of a first-post, especially as it's partially OT. :-) As a historian of modern China finishing my dissertation at UCB, I have to chime in and say that the often invoked Mao example when talking about Nazi atrocities is based almost entirely on misconceptions and misinformation. The people who died under Mao were almost all the result of misguided policies (economic and political) in the context of a very complex political situation. To put it in the same terms as the holocaust and Hitler's military aggression in Europe is to completely obscure the distinction between deliberate attempts at extermination and poor policy-making, between intention and unintended consequences, as well as to misread the actual operation of power in communist China when compared to the Nazi dictatorship. Mao was rarely in control of his own party, nor even fully informed as to the conditions in the countryside that led to the famine and death tolls in the Great Leap Forward and the violence in the Cultural Revolution. Whatever his follies, mistakes, and lust for personal power, Mao was not a monster out to exterminate millions of people. Rhetorically it sounds good, but it does violence to historical understanding to imply that the actions and motivations of Mao and the CCP/PRC were analogous to Hitler's and the Nazi Party/Government. I would be happy to supply a "starting point" bibliography for anyone who would actually take the time to read some well researched analyses of the GLF and GPCR, instead of just spouting "common knowledge", which is common mainly in the sense of being based on very superficial, and often outright wrong, information. (Sadly, the state of education on China is abysmal in most of the world and as a result such sloppy comparisons between Hitler-Mao or Stalin-Mao are made often, even in places like the NYT and other venues that should have better research staffs). The larger point Jayanand is trying to make, however, I agree with. As a historian (again), I find it painful to see anyone advocating the destruction of historical traces just because they have negative associations as it only hastens historical amnesia. This seems especially dangerous because we selectively ignore all sorts of other items that are blotted with their past on a daily basis: are all people who collect Vietnam era memorabilia suspect because of, and complicit with, the napalming of Vietnamese villages carried out by the US Air Force? How about WW2 era items from the US bombing command, since they deliberately firebombed Japanese cities killing tens of thousands of civilians, even children? If my grandfather was involved in those raids and I wanted to collect a bomber captain's pistol would that make me complicit in those actions? How about the virtual extermination of native Americans in California (which also had a death toll in the millions)? Anyone who collects items from this segment of the past is morally suspect? Where does this end? I find it ironic that one of the most misguided policies of the Cultural Revolution was precisely the same kind of judging of people's motives for having possessions as I see in this discussion: having bourgeois items (or even things produced by a capitalist country) meant, a priori, one was a capitalist and hence discriminated against. And then, it seems to me that there are plenty of far more pressing issues (some mentioned by Jayanand) involving real tyranny and oppression today that we can be outraged over, rather than a few cameras with a swastika on them from half a century ago. To keep this somewhat photography related: I do have a small gallery on the LUG site that I am slowly adding to. It's mainly conventional street stuff shot on film with an M4 (and a mix of Zeiss/CV/Canon glass) here in San Francisco. :-) http://gallery.leica-users.org/v/shudaizi/ respectfully (from a LUG newb), Kevin Landdeck ============= Only connect. ============= bamboozld at gmail.com shudaizi photography: http://www.flickr.com/photos/shudaizi/ On Jun 30, 2009, at 8:25 PM, Jayanand Govindaraj wrote: > Douglas, > I am sure that an ordinary Hindu would not mind carrying a camera > with a > swastika at all - in all probability, he will be totally ignorant of > the > Nazi connection. There are a lot of Hindus, Buddhists and Jains in the > world! > > Its all a question of the winners who write history and influence the > thinking of the succeeding generations - the 'good' guys and the > 'bad' guys > is only your point of view, it is seldom very clear cut, except to a > propaganda machine. Mao killed a lot more of his citizens than > Hitler did, > but none of us think twice about buying Chinese made goods, > essentially made > under the same regime. Don't you have the same revulsion when you > walk into > Wal Mart? > > Multinational firms have traditionally been remarkably free of ethical > considerations relative to the boss' bonus, i.e. the bottom line. A > lot of > the consumer items you buy have been made in Gulag like working > conditions > all over the world. There are companies who have marketed infant > food in > Asia & Africa that had been banned in Europe and the USA. Food > grains are > destroyed and burnt to keep prices up for farmers, rather than send > it free > to the hungry all over the world. Is that not revolting? Will you > boycott > such companies/regimes? Or just pay lip service? > > Cheers > Jayanand > > > On Wed, Jul 1, 2009 at 7:55 AM, Douglas Nygren <dnygr at cshore.com> > wrote: > >> In an age when people wear labels as if they were branded, why >> would any >> sane person want to be seen holding a camera with a Swaktika on it? >> >> These cameras are damaged goods pure and simple. It's not the >> cameras' >> fault. Cameras made at the same time but do not bear bear the >> Swastika don't >> bear the burden of the symbol as much. >> >> Doug >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Leica Users Group. >> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information >> > > _______________________________________________ > Leica Users Group. > See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information