Archived posting to the Leica Users Group, 2009/06/21
[Author Prev] [Author Next] [Thread Prev] [Thread Next] [Author Index] [Topic Index] [Home] [Search]On Jun 21, 2009, at 11:42 AM, Geoff Hopkinson wrote: > Ouch! I have no idea where that came from or why you think I was > somehow > interesting and mildly amusing. I was addressing Jayanand. you are in fact, addressing the whole list Geoff... and we are all here because we are leica enthusiasts... but we don't need a leica cheerleader...(or maybe leica needs to employ their own cheerleaders... ) we just happily use the equipment, and criticize an inept, badly run company, Steve > I'm in trouble AGAIN for being enthusiastic about Leica?? > I'm out. Bye > > 2009/6/22 Steve Barbour <kididdoc at cox.net> > >> >> On Jun 20, 2009, at 10:32 PM, Geoff Hopkinson wrote: >> >> Jayanand I feel defensive about Leica and the M8 because I am >> enthusiastic >>> about both and frequently see your posts and approach to both as >>> negative. >>> I can never understand that on a Leica list. >>> >> >> >> and many were here and leica enthusiasts long before you Geoff... >> >> (a fact that appears to have escaped you...) >> >> somehow interesting and mildly amusing, >> >> >> Steve >> >> >> >> >> Sorry, I just don't get it. >>> Shooting and socialising with more than a hundred Leica >>> enthusiasts over a >>> couple of days in Germany I saw a lot of keen photographers >>> enjoying their >>> equipment. No investment bankers although there was a least one >>> dentist >>> ;-) >>> I met a number of Leica staff from division heads and down and >>> they were >>> without exception extraordinarily helpful and friendly. Looking at >>> their >>> operation, people and facilities up close you can appreciate more >>> just why >>> the lenses cost so much, for example. As you know I think they are >>> worth >>> it. I want them to be around into the future too. I listened to >>> Stefan >>> Daniel provide much candid insight about the state of business for >>> Leica, >>> some of which I shared here. Leica needs the support of users. >>> When you are as enthusiastic and committed as I am sometimes the >>> constant >>> criticism or armchair CEO advice on the web forums gets frustrating. >>> >>> Never mind I'll say no more and we'll continue to continue to have >>> polar >>> opposite but amicable views on Leica and Adobe and Nikon and no >>> doubt much >>> else besides ;-) >>> >> >> >> >> >> >> . >>> 2009/6/21 Jayanand Govindaraj <jayanand at gmail.com> >>> >>> Geoff, >>>> It is not some, but most of the sales have gone to folks who >>>> would use an >>>> M8 >>>> as a fashion accessory. The real users buy most of their Leica >>>> kit used, >>>> which is of no use to Leica, the company. The M8 in its early >>>> days was an >>>> exception, but recently most of the messages on this list on this >>>> subject >>>> are about buying it used, or about alternatives from Panasonic and >>>> Olympus. >>>> The fact is that Leica is marketing into a certain segment of >>>> society >>>> which >>>> is in difficulty now because of the economic crisis, so the S2 >>>> targeted >>>> at >>>> professionals may be a good idea after all. Much better than >>>> bringing out >>>> a >>>> R10 which will sell in miniscule numbers. At least the numbers >>>> that the >>>> S2 >>>> will sell at would bring in much larger margins. Whatever we may >>>> think, >>>> volumes do count! The D5000 is far more important than the D3x >>>> for Nikon >>>> from a company health and profitability point of view. I also >>>> think that >>>> Leica have screwed up big time by not bringing in a less >>>> expensive M >>>> camera, >>>> maybe with an EVF, and not following Zeiss' example of offering >>>> their >>>> legendary lenses in Nikon/Canon/M42 mounts. If the M is not >>>> central to >>>> their >>>> future, as it seems right now, they might as well maximise the >>>> revenue >>>> from >>>> their main intellectual property, i.e. the lens designs for the M >>>> and R >>>> lines. All in all, Leica seems to be a confused company right >>>> now, and >>>> not >>>> a >>>> very well managed one at that. Pity. >>>> >>>> I do not know why calling an item a rich man's plaything has such >>>> negative >>>> connotations. It certainly does not reflect on the quality of the >>>> item, >>>> or >>>> the user. I have expensive watches, use only bespoke clothing, >>>> etc. etc. >>>> which are all extravagances, and I am unapologetic about it. I >>>> bought a >>>> Nikkor 200-400 lens, which for an amateur is an extravagance, >>>> too. I >>>> don't >>>> drive expensive cars because that is not my scene, and I get no >>>> pleasure >>>> from it. Why don't you just enjoy the M8 instead of getting >>>> defensive >>>> about it every time? Accept it in your mind that it is your >>>> indulgence, >>>> and >>>> that is it! >>>> >>>> I am debating between the M8 and G1 because, for me, it would be >>>> very >>>> much >>>> a >>>> secondary system to my Nikon kit and spending a load of cash into >>>> a body >>>> that will not be used very much seems a waste - better buy a D700 >>>> instead. >>>> I >>>> was all prepared to buy a M9 when it came out, with all issues >>>> sorted out >>>> (like the necessity of using an IR filter, which in hot, humid, >>>> dusty >>>> climates like ours is a PITA), but now it looks as if it might >>>> not come >>>> for >>>> quite some time, if at all. Hence the quandary. >>>> >>>> Cheers >>>> Jayanand >>>> >>>> >>>> On Sun, Jun 21, 2009 at 8:58 AM, Geoff Hopkinson <hopsternew at >>>> gmail.com >>>> >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>> >>>> Some folks with lots of spare funds might buy Leica because it is >>>> stylish >>>>> or >>>>> elegant or higher status or whatever. Good for them. It helps >>>>> Leica >>>>> which >>>>> helps other users too. Who knows, some of your investment >>>>> bankers may >>>>> >>>> shoot >>>> >>>>> with their new cameras and get addicted. >>>>> Keen enthusiasts will find the money or build their outfits as >>>>> they can >>>>> >>>> and >>>> >>>>> choose Leica for the reasons we choose Leica. >>>>> Point of interest. The Summilux 50 ASPH. outsells the much >>>>> cheaper and >>>>> still by all accounts excellent Summarit 50 by 2:1 >>>>> Why would that be? >>>>> >>>>> 2009/6/21 Jayanand Govindaraj <jayanand at gmail.com> >>>>> >>>>> Douglas, >>>>>> This has been evident for years now. They have been targeting >>>>>> rich >>>>>> investment bankers and their ilk, not you and me. It became quite >>>>>> >>>>> obvious >>>> >>>>> with the M8 advertising campaign, which was far more prominent >>>>> in the >>>>>> GQ/Esquire type magazines rather than hardcore photography >>>>>> magazines. >>>>>> >>>>> It >>>> >>>>> was >>>>>> also heavily featured in the "fashion tech" pages (alongside the >>>>>> >>>>> Ipod,etc) >>>>> >>>>>> of those magazines. But if truth be told, the bankers would buy >>>>>> new, >>>>>> >>>>> and >>>> >>>>> we >>>>> >>>>>> would buy second hand... >>>>>> Cheers >>>>>> Jayanand >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On Sun, Jun 21, 2009 at 3:50 AM, Douglas Sharp <douglas.sharp at >>>>>> gmx.de >>>>>> > >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> I was looking up things Leica on the Web recently and noticed the >>>>>>> >>>>>> number >>>>> >>>>>> of >>>>>> >>>>>>> hits that turn up for Leica on "lifestyle" pages. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> It didn't seem to work after their flutter with Hermes, but >>>>>>> now they >>>>>>> >>>>>> seem >>>>> >>>>>> to have got their products prominently "placed", or even >>>>>> "positioned" >>>>>>> >>>>>> (in >>>>> >>>>>> the words of the world of marketing) >>>>>>> >>>>>>> No more mention of precision optics and superb engineering - >>>>>>> it's all >>>>>>> turned into up-market hype about the special finish, how they >>>>>>> look >>>>>>> >>>>>> and >>>> >>>>> if >>>>> >>>>>> they have a perfectly matching bag... everything in black, white, >>>>>>> >>>>>> olive >>>> >>>>> green, titanium and silver seems to be the name of the game. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> The opening of the new Leica Shop in Moscow's uppest-market >>>>>>> >>>>>> residential >>>> >>>>> and >>>>>> >>>>>>> shopping quarter at the end of May seems to be following the >>>>>>> same >>>>>>> >>>>>> trend. >>>>> >>>>>> I >>>>>> >>>>>>> wouldn't be surprised to find cameras in gold and royal blue >>>>>>> with a >>>>>>> >>>>>> double >>>>>> >>>>>>> eagle or in Faberge enamel soon, packed in a matching Faberge >>>>>>> easter >>>>>>> >>>>>> egg. >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> Then Ferrari red, Bugatti blue, Mercedes silver and, and, >>>>>>> >>>>>> and......... >>>> >>>>> >>>>>>> The higher prices are obviously already a unique and exclusive >>>>>>> >>>>>> selling >>>> >>>>> point for people who want to be seen with a Leica as a lifestyle >>>>>>> >>>>>> accessory. >>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> The M8 Safari is almost sold out, the White Edition has gone >>>>>>> >>>>>> completely, >>>>> >>>>>> a >>>>>> >>>>>>> D-Lux 4 Titan and a D-Lux 4 Safari are selling well. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> This is all very good for Leica, but I think it bodes ill for >>>>>>> the >>>>>>> >>>>>> former >>>>> >>>>>> target group to which we all most probably belong. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Cheers >>>>>>> Douglas >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> Leica Users Group. >>>>>>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more >>>>>>> information >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> Leica Users Group. >>>>>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more >>>>>> information >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> Cheers >>>>> Geoff >>>>> 'Life's not B&W, except at both ends' >>>>> http://gallery.leica-users.org/v/gh/ >>>>> http://www.pbase.com/hoppyman >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Leica Users Group. >>>>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more >>>>> information >>>>> >>>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Leica Users Group. >>>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more >>>> information >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Cheers >>> Geoff >>> 'Life's not B&W, except at both ends' >>> http://gallery.leica-users.org/v/gh/ >>> http://www.pbase.com/hoppyman >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Leica Users Group. >>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information >>> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Leica Users Group. >> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information >> > > > > -- > Cheers > Geoff > 'Life's not B&W, except at both ends' > http://gallery.leica-users.org/v/gh/ > http://www.pbase.com/hoppyman > > _______________________________________________ > Leica Users Group. > See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information