Archived posting to the Leica Users Group, 2008/09/18

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Subject: [Leica] technology changes...
From: kididdoc at cox.net (Steve Barbour)
Date: Thu Sep 18 10:47:40 2008
References: <F8BB1743-A423-4AF5-A8B1-E3A4F91E5D55@dial.pipex.com> <1A1AFCF8-913D-4D93-8260-50DAC1386014@cox.net> <f951d2970809171301r46537be9g96ab073001ee6b25@mail.gmail.com> <F0B36816-8B13-4106-A0B3-22772D0FC5DF@cox.net> <48D1F794.7020207@tele2.fr>

On Sep 17, 2008, at 11:39 PM, Philippe AMARD wrote:

> Shared in part.
> The pro's problem is a lack of recognition of his/talents and  
> expertise hence the issue of getting paid what s/he deserves leading  
> to a race against time to mass produce and keep the accounts balanced.
>
> Yet, digital is sometimes wonderful for the amateur. If you manage  
> to forget past approaches such as"a camera for life", or the trend  
> to get "the latest, the fastest, the biggest", etc then on the one  
> tool you use for listening to the radio, watching movies, typing  
> letters, communicating the world over preferably on the LUG, you can  
> also store, edit and print snaps you shoot in incredible numbers,  
> which allows you to have fun, to improve faster, and leave the box  
> to other members of the family at evenings ;-)
>
> Glad I can do it for fun to.


and you can use digital or an M3 and film and have a blast, like some  
pros are doing, when it's all for fun, ie not part of the job....



Steve
>
> Phx
>
> Steve Barbour wrote:
>
>>
>> On Sep 17, 2008, at 1:01 PM, John Beeching wrote:
>>
>>> Dear Steve,
>>>
>>> I am so glad I don't work professionally and so am under no need  
>>> to  "go
>>> digital".  I think I'll keep putting film in my M until I pop my   
>>> clogs!
>>
>>
>>
>> that's the way I feel, it all sounded so familiar, and sad...
>>
>>
>> glad I can do it for fun,
>>
>> Steve
>>
>>>
>>>
>>> John
>>>
>>> 2008/9/17 Steve Barbour <kididdoc@cox.net>
>>>
>>>> from another (computer) list...
>>>>
>>>> relevant, a very good summary I think, but many here have heard  
>>>> it,  have
>>>> lived it, and many have to deal with it now...
>>>>
>>>> Steve
>>>>
>>>> **************
>>>>
>>>>> Well Shawn,
>>>>>
>>>>> I beg to differ. Life is not as simple as people wish it to be,  
>>>>> I'm
>>>>> afraid....
>>>>>
>>>>> Without beating my own drum, I would say that I'm probably in a   
>>>>> better
>>>>> position to comment on this than many, having been a working   
>>>>> professional
>>>>> photographer for 22 years now...
>>>>>
>>>>> I've lived and worked through the demise of film and the advent of
>>>>> digital, and I can honestly say with my hand on my heart that I   
>>>>> never used
>>>>> to waste so much 'down-time' as I do now having to keep abreast   
>>>>> and paying
>>>>> for technology that at the end of the day does the same thing  
>>>>> that  it did 22
>>>>> years ago...that is make photographs.
>>>>>
>>>>> OH - I can now wizz them across the planet in zilch time. Big   
>>>>> Deal. That
>>>>> doesn't help my bottom line. It just adds more stress to my  
>>>>> work  day.
>>>>> Clients do not want to pay for this. They expect it in with the   
>>>>> package
>>>>> these days....They want me not only to drive to the location  
>>>>> (300  mile trip)
>>>>> shoot the photos, but also develop them and "ping" them over to   
>>>>> the US or
>>>>> wherever before I go to bed. Its totally pants. When I shoot, I   
>>>>> simply don't
>>>>> sleep...which makes me ill....which creates more stress blah de   
>>>>> blah...But I
>>>>> digress...
>>>>>
>>>>> When I started professional photography in 1986 I saved my money  
>>>>> and
>>>>> invested in a medium format system that served me well for many   
>>>>> years - I
>>>>> still have it and it still works now and takes beautiful   
>>>>> photographs.
>>>>> Clients used to be happy to pay for the film and processing.  
>>>>> Job  Done.
>>>>>
>>>>> I also have a Nikon D3 (and had D2x and D100 and .....get the   
>>>>> picture -
>>>>> pardon the pun) and with each camera purchase comes a raft of
>>>>> disappointments as the latest camera body doesn't work well  
>>>>> with  last years
>>>>> lens...Take for example the D3...Nikons current flagship   
>>>>> model...It doesn't
>>>>> even work properly with the current 70-200 f2.8 VR lens - Yes,  
>>>>> I  grant you
>>>>> it works sort of...as long as you are prepared to live with  
>>>>> massive
>>>>> vingretting...the whole digitisation of the industry is quite   
>>>>> shocking. So
>>>>> when Photokina is launched next week (yet another commercial
>>>>> merry-go-round), I'll be having to keep an eye out to replace   
>>>>> another $2,500
>>>>> lens....The one I'm replacing is only 2 years old !!
>>>>>
>>>>> And no Shawn...this didn't use to happen with film. I know.   
>>>>> Because I
>>>>> remember. You bought a Hasslebald lens...it would last decades.
>>>>>
>>>>> The reality for photographers is that we are having to waste  
>>>>> all  our time
>>>>> and effort "learning" new ways to make the same wheel, rather  
>>>>> than  creating
>>>>> challenging and creative imagrey. Digital Technology has been a   
>>>>> complete
>>>>> disaster for independant photography, as sole traders like  
>>>>> myself  simply do
>>>>> not have enough hours in the day to do and learn all the  
>>>>> technology.
>>>>>
>>>>> But somehow we have to. But don't tell me its "always been like   
>>>>> this"
>>>>> Because that's simply an inaccurate statement. It has never  
>>>>> been  like this
>>>>> before ! Technology is simply undermining and blocking true   
>>>>> creativity and
>>>>> real life observation skills. And no amount of pixel counting  
>>>>> and  special
>>>>> effects in Photoshop will change this, or make the person using   
>>>>> the computer
>>>>> a better photographer.
>>>>>
>>>>> I would also add that in my experience Computer Technology has   
>>>>> undermined
>>>>> what photography is about..people look at my images these days  
>>>>> and  "assume"
>>>>> they were done in Photoshop ! Even the documentary images -  
>>>>> this  destroys
>>>>> the very essense of what I stand for.
>>>>>
>>>>> Because of Technology - Photography is no longer 'trusted' to   
>>>>> represent
>>>>> anything more than a glint in someones eye, and has been  
>>>>> ruthlessly
>>>>> commodotised. I've even had "serious" discussions with clients   
>>>>> telling me I
>>>>> should charge for my photos by the MB - and not by any aesthetic
>>>>> principle...
>>>>>
>>>>> Its all very insulting to be honest...
>>>>>
>>>>> Best wishes,
>>>>> David
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> David Townend Photography
>>>>>
>>>>> http://www.davidtownend.com
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On 17 Sep 2008, at 16:27, Shawn King wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> Photographers (and others) have *always* gone through this,   
>>>>>> computers or
>>>>>> not, digital or not.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The technology of almost everything moves forward those who  
>>>>>> rely  on that
>>>>>> technology for whatever reasons move forward with it - or they   
>>>>>> get left
>>>>>> behind.
>>>>>> -- 
>>>>>> Shawn King
>>>>>> Host/Executive Producer
>>>>>> Your Mac Life
>>>>>> http://www.yourmaclifeshow.com
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Leica Users Group.
>>>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more  
>>>> information
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -- 
>>> John Beeching
>>> http://johnbeeching.com/
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Leica Users Group.
>>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Leica Users Group.
>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Leica Users Group.
> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information


In reply to: Message from kididdoc at cox.net (Steve Barbour) ([Leica] technology changes...)
Message from johnbeeching at gmail.com (John Beeching) ([Leica] technology changes...)
Message from kididdoc at cox.net (Steve Barbour) ([Leica] technology changes...)
Message from philippe.amard at tele2.fr (Philippe AMARD) ([Leica] technology changes...)