Archived posting to the Leica Users Group, 2007/01/16

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Subject: [Leica] OT: There's something about German design, Now a Challenge for Marc S.
From: harrison at (Harrison McClary)
Date: Tue Jan 16 07:12:05 2007
References: <>

Just what does any of this have to do with Leica cameras, photography or 
anything on this list? Enough already PLEASE.

> Marc James Small writes in part:
>> I would suggest that you subscribe to the WWII 
>> Lists or to H-War and post your suggestions 
>> there.  Others more knowledgeable on modern 
>> scholarship shall soon set you right.  The Allies 
>> have not, to my knowledge, ever acknowledged a 
>> shoot-down by an ME-262 and the modern Luftwaffe 
>> concedes that the ME-262 did not score any kills 
>> on Allied fighters.  
> Give me your source for this? Not more nonsense, an authoritative 
> published source.
>> See my earlier post as to what constitutes a 
>> confirmed kill.  Dig around and find a single 
>> confirmed kill accepted by both sides and by 
>> modern scholars and I'll be delighted to hear of 
>> it.  Even the noted aviation scholar William 
>> Green was unable to ever confirm a single kill by 
>> the ME-262 though he tried hard to do so for two decades.
> Source? No more pontification, source. Book, author, chapter and page?
>> H-War is part of H-Net, the academic set of 
>> social science lists run by the University of 
>> Michigan.  
> Post a link to actual sourced writings on ME-262 confirmed kills and the 
> overturn of official German records by this group?
>> Greg, you display a distressing tendency to get 
>> into personal attacks.  Instead of that, I would 
>> suggest that you read books written after 
>> 1960. 
> And you have an depressing tendency to make up history as you write.
>> There is a lot available today on the 
>> Eastern Front and your local library probably has 
>> a few of these.  Read them and learn that were it 
>> not for massive Allied supplements to the Soviet 
>> war effort ("Lend Lease") they would have 
>> collapsed in early 1943.  (See the old but still 
>> authoritative Pogue on Marshall for 
>> details.)  You might want to read a selection of 
>> Colonel Glantz' works on the Eastern Front as he 
>> is the scholar most highly regarded both in the 
>> West and in the East.  I disagree with a few of 
>> is conclusions but, all in all, I find his 
>> assessment of the Soviet contribution to the 
>> Allied victory in the Second World War 
>> reasonable.  Again, I don't agree with all he 
>> opines but the &#65533;stfront is his turf and is not mine.
> My personal library is considerably larger than any local library's 
> Military History section. I have several of David Glantz's eastern front 
> book. I've actually read them, have you? 
> Now I have a challenge for you. Go to the Wikipedia page on the ME-262 and 
> refute it by re-writing the "Combat" paragraph to say that Germany's 
> ME-262 never shot down a single allied fighter during the war (i.e. 
> exactly what you've written here: 
> Greg J. Lorenzo
> Calgary, Alberta
> _______________________________________________
> Leica Users Group.
> See for more information

Harrison McClary
Harrison McClary Photography
ImageStockSouth - Stock Photography
Tobacco Road: Personal Blog: 

In reply to: Message from gregj.lorenzo at (GREG LORENZO) ([Leica] OT: There's something about German design, Now a Challenge for Marc S.)