Archived posting to the Leica Users Group, 2005/09/30

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Subject: [Leica] DMR at 1600 iso
From: bdcolen at comcast.net (B. D. Colen)
Date: Fri Sep 30 13:35:28 2005

I agree you with about the general use of the DMR, but my feeling is that if
the digital M doesn't give results comparable - or at least close to - a
Canon at 1600 it's a failure. The M is a camera for working in low light -
one should not have to buy a Noctilux because it won't produce good results
at 800 or 1600. This is, frankly what has me worried about the digital M -
aside from the price. ;-)


On 9/30/05 4:19 PM, "Robert Stevens" <leica@robsteve.com> wrote:

> I haven't tried the B&W mode of the DMR yet.
> 
> All of this DMR stuff is still new to me and I am still learning what
> it can do.  While it was not particularly bright for the shot of my
> son, I knew the light was even and there were not any dark
> shadows.  This  was within the capability of the DMR.  I need to do
> some further testing in dark situations.  The nearest coal mine is a
> few hundred miles away and I would have to borrow a neighbors cat to
> test the DMR on a truly  dark high noise situation :-)
> 
> To be fair, the Leica is probably best at 800 iso and under.   The
> target market is probably what I intend to use it for; scenic and
> travel with the iso set in the 100-200 range.  Here the DMR excels
> with its wide dynamic range and great color.
> 
>   I would not suggest Tina take a DMR on her trips where there is a
> lot of low light.  On the other hand,  a Digital M with similar
> performance at 800 iso is quite capable when paired with the
> Noctilux.  Using the 1.37 crop factor, the Noctilux would be using a
> lot of its sharp sweet spot.  I think in my travels to Paris, people
> shots on the street at night were 1/125th at f1 and 800 film.
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Robert
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> At 04:31 PM 9/30/2005, B. D. Colen wrote:
> 
>> My take on looking at the two, Robert - and blowing them up 400% - was 
>> that
>> the DMR image was much more accurate in terms of the color (and obviously
>> I'm guessing on that) while the Leica was much noisier.
>> 
>> I find noise more important than color accuracy, but of course 95 times 
>> out
>> of 100 I'm converting to black and white. But even if I wasn't, color
>> accuracy is damn easy to adjust in PS, and while there are ways to 
>> eliminate
>> noise, all involve losing detail.
>> 
>> In terms of the photo of your son, it has virtually no shadow areas in it,
>> so it's likely to print quite well, without the noise being intrusive. But
>> as I look at it on the monitor, it sure looks "grainy" in the background.
>> 
>> But when all is said and done, the DMR color accuracy is impressive.
>> 
>> 
>> On 9/30/05 2:23 PM, "Robert Stevens" <leica@robsteve.com> wrote:
>> 
>>> I just did a bit more work on the same two files.
>>> 
>>> I opened them both with the Adobe Camera Raw, but for the Leica one,
>>> I adjusted up the noise reduction and luminance smoothing
>>> sliders.  The Canon camera has a much more capable processor and a
>>> lot of this is done in camera.
>>> 
>>> I cropped the files to show the dark shadow under the furnace.  I
>>> also down sized the Leica crop, so it was about the same width as the
>>> Canon file.  B.D. is correct that the Canon has much less noise, as
>>> shown by the examples below.   Look at the tool marks on the brass
>>> fitting.  The Leica seems to have the edge here.
>>> 
>>> http://www.robsteve.com/DMR/CanLeica1600.jpg
>>> 
>>> 
>>>   Isn't the over all quality of the finished print more important
>>> than the noise we can see on our monitors?  With people and and
>>> within the limits of the DMR, I think the DMR makes the better
>>> print.  I have a 5x7 print of my son from the 1600 iso shot and it
>>> looks no different than a print from 400 speed film.
>>> 
>>> Regards,
>>> 
>>> Robert
>>> 
>>> 
>>> At 02:52 PM 9/30/2005, you wrote:
>>> 
>>>> Robert Stevens wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>> I just posted using the camera file names.  The one starting with a
>>>>> "L" is the Leica.  It was the second file on my original post.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Here is the Leica:
>>>>> 
>>>>> http://www.robsteve.com/DMR/L%201020850.jpg
>>>>> 
>>>>> Here is the Canon.
>>>>> 
>>>>> http://www.robsteve.com/DMR/KX5T7819.jpg
>>>>> 
>>>>> Regards,
>>>>> 
>>>>> Robert
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> I am red-faced.  I picked the better shot, but attributed it to the
>>>> wrong Camera!
>>>> 
>>>> Robert, I am VERY impressed!  Thanks for doing this... it has been
>>>> very illuminating!
>>>> 
>>>> For me, however, it's "open mouth  -  insert foot  - chew vigorously!"
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> --
>>>> David Young,
>>>> Logan Lake, BC
>>>> CANADA.
>>>> Personal Web-site at: http://www3.telus.net/~telyt
>>>> Leica Reflex Forum web-page: http://www3.telus.net/~telyt/lrflex.htm
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Leica Users Group.
>>>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
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>>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
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>> 
>> 
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> 



In reply to: Message from leica at robsteve.com (Robert Stevens) ([Leica] DMR at 1600 iso)