Archived posting to the Leica Users Group, 2005/02/23

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Subject: [Leica] LEICA could be clever
From: bdcolen at (B. D. Colen)
Date: Wed Feb 23 17:51:25 2005

Call me an old fool - never mind, that's been done. Anyway, I'll put a
very small amount of money on the proposition that the Zeiss Ikon film
camera, if it ever appears, is nothing but a place holder for the Zeiss
Ikon digital rangefinder. I don't think there is a resurgence of
interest in either rangefinders or film - and I think the people at
Zeiss know that. I think the focal lengths of the new lenses have been
very intentionally selected with a multiplication finder in mind, and
that while we'll never see a digital Leica M, we will see a digital M
mount Zeiss.

B. D.

-----Original Message-----
[] On Behalf Of
Dan C
Sent: Wednesday, February 23, 2005 8:21 PM
To: Leica Users Group
Subject: RE: [Leica] LEICA could be clever

In all this discussion, I don't think anyone has questioned the effect
of Leica's troubles on the forthcoming rangefinder camera from
Zeiss-Ikon.  It is ironic that the demise of Leica Corp. should coincide
with an apparent resurgence of interest in rangefinder cameras.

-dan c.

At 12:01 PM 23-02-05 -0500, B. D. Colen wrote:
>What's so sad is that after putting the meter in the M at the point 
>when everyone had already put meters in their SLRs and some had even 
>gone to AE or even more automation, Leica was cowed by the collector 
>types in its fan base, who complained that no real Leica would have a 
>meter, and who said that the M5 was much to big, and ugly, and didn't 
>look like a Leica - those of you who own and love them know what BS 
>this is, and those of you who don't should check out the measurements. 
>So Leica buckled, and went to the M4 series, afraid to go the meter 
>route again until the late 80s, when the geniuses at Solms finally 
>figured out how to get a meter into an M without making it look 
>different. Of course when they then introduced TTL flash metering a 
>good 15 years after other manufacturers, folks on this very list whined

>and bitched that the TTL is how much higher than the standard M6?
>So now we hear that the MP - which may indeed be beautifully built, but

>which retains a rewind system no one who has ever had to rewind in a 
>hurry would want - outsells the M7. Well, I'm sure that's true; there's

>no question the MP will call to the 'classicists' far louder than the 
>M7. And obviously some will read that as proving that Leica should 
>remain loyal to its loyalists, and only produce 'classic' cameras.
>Those folks may be right. On the other hand, there obviously aren't 
>enough of those classicists out there to keep Leica alive, so how smart

>has it been to listen to those folks all along, rather than figure out 
>how to produce truly modern rangefinders that remain as close as 
>possible to the classic Leicas in appearance, while continuing to use 
>the M mount lenses?
>-----Original Message-----
>[] On Behalf Of

>Ted Grant
>Sent: Wednesday, February 23, 2005 11:16 AM
>To: Leica Users Group
>Subject: Re: [Leica] LEICA could be clever
>B. D. Colen offered:
>Subject: RE: [Leica] LEICA could be clever
>> That could well be true - and if Leica were to kill off the M7 and
>> stick with the MP the company would be repeating the M5 mistake...and

>> we see where that one got them. ;-)<<<
>Hi B.D.,
>Absolutely! And as one who worked M5's, (don't forget guys I use M's 3 
>at a time while working.) I unfortunately was influenced by a "techie 
>type" that
>the M5 wasn't as good as an M6. I sold 3 M5's for $800.00 each on a
>sale. Today of course I understand why the guy got his money out so
>pay me. :-(  No idea what they'd be worth today, damn poor luck for me.
>As for dropping the M7? My goodness me, I know at times they make 
>horribly stupid mistakes in Solms, but to kill the M7 without question 
>would be worse
>than killing the M5!
>Having used 3 M7's since they arrived on the market, and despite all 
>positive accolades about earlier M models. Rightly deserved as they 
>good. Still are! :-)  But the M7 is the best of the breed bar
>That's from practical hard shooting days, weeks, months, years?  Gotta 
>be close in years, two anyway.;-)
>And before this topic might evolve into a terminally long anti-pro 
>battle over the M7, may I please ask.... save your breathe folks..... 
>no one will
>change my mind simply because I wouldn't change them for anything 
>else...........other than?
>Yep you guessed it.....a digital M7! ;-)  There you go eh? Let the 
>battle begin, over the top at sunrise! ;-)
>Leica Users Group.
>See for more information
>Leica Users Group.
>See for more information
Leica Users Group.
See for more information

In reply to: Message from bladman99 at (Dan C) ([Leica] LEICA could be clever)