Archived posting to the Leica Users Group, 2004/11/04

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Subject: [Leica] A review of the Kodak all B&W SLR (now non-existant) onLuminous Landscape
From: abridge at gmail.com (Adam Bridge)
Date: Thu Nov 4 09:57:58 2004
References: <4cfa589b041103213339b5a4a@mail.gmail.com> <001d01c4c233$ad7c9480$87d86c18@ted>

Hi Ted and thanks for your thoughts on the Digilux 2.

I guess my thoughts go to seeking out the "Best Possible" performance
in black and white.

I'll compare it to film because while the technology is totally
different there's still a relationship.

Do you shoot color film and print in black and white, Ted, or do you
use black and white films? I think you use black and white. Why?
Because for a given low-light situation black and white films have a
great exposure latitude and a higher sensitivity than color. And
(although this may be a down for some people) they have a grain
structure you can exploit in processing.

So, if you want to work near the boundary of film's capability you
typically do it in black and white. (Kyle demonstrated how to do it in
color quite dramatically just this week.)

Digital sensors give up dramatics amounts of real estate to process
color. For a chip of a given die size, if you give up color and only
work in luminance, the designer can elect to (for example) have many
more pixels with the same sensitivity as a color chip, or by making
the buckets bigger, you can have increased light sensitivity  (with
lower noise) with the same pixel count. Or you can elect something in
between.

My point, then, is this. While digital is currently quite good in
converting a color sensor's data to monochrome, is it as good as film?
Will you be able to exploit all of those fabulous Leica glass's
capabilities and render them as a digital image?

I assert the answer is a profound NO. You can't.

Now if Leica photography means making fine images, images as good as
the optical state of the art allows, then NOT making a black and white
M is to turn away from the very essence of what the company has been.

You can argue, and folks like B. D. have done so quite thoughtfully
and passionately, that Leica has turned away from the path of making a
system of lenses and cameras for great images and has become a very
expensive fashion house. Maybe. But the lenses are STILL the best in
world and the M7 is still the best range-finder camera in the world.
The R8/R9 is still a superb SLR if you don't need autofocus etc etc.
So, if you want to make fantastic images on 35mm film you can do it
today with Leica lenses and an M7 and you'll be pushing film to its
limit. That's the attraction of Leica to me.

The challenge to Leica is not to throw that away in the digital world.
Make a black and white M that's monochrome from the chip on. If color
technology today gives you good images at 1600 and acceptable images
at 3200 then black and white should push that to 3200 and 6400. And
won't THAT make your life happier?

That's my take, Ted. It's not about "good" or even "good enough" but
"as good as possible."

Thanks for reading.

Adam


On Wed, 03 Nov 2004 22:01:08 -0800, Ted Grant <tedgrant@shaw.ca> wrote:
> Hi Adam,
> I've used the Digilux 2 in B&W mode setting and it's great! And I've 
> printed
> very nice crisp, good contrast 12X18 prints with an Epson 2200 on Epson B&W
> Enhanced matte paper.
> 
> I realize it isn't a truly Leica camera, but in the real world of today do
> you think Leica will have a digital M full frame before 2999? ;-) That is,
> with the finest of digital bells and whistles expected by Leica shooters of
> today?
> 
> Actually I'm quite pleased with the B&W's off the Digilux 2 and if one puts
> the techie numbers aside, the printed results are quite excellent. So even
> though this Digi 2 isn't a "true Leica digital." Will there ever be one? 
> The
> results at the moment are very fine indeed! Actually, no complaint!
> 
> ted
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Leica Users Group.
> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information
>

In reply to: Message from abridge at gmail.com (Adam Bridge) ([Leica] A review of the Kodak all B&W SLR (now non-existant) on Luminous Landscape)
Message from tedgrant at shaw.ca (Ted Grant) ([Leica] A review of the Kodak all B&W SLR (now non-existant) onLuminous Landscape)