Archived posting to the Leica Users Group, 2004/07/12

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Subject: [Leica] New Leica digital rangefinder system ? , was: new M lens?
From: ljkapner at cox.net (Leonard J Kapner)
Date: Mon Jul 12 10:04:01 2004

Nathan,

I agree and suspect the following equation is likely to apply at some point,
at least with the camera brand:

Contax : Kyocera Ceramics :: Leica : Fill In The Blank (Matsushita?)

Len

-- 

-----Original Message-----
From: lug-bounces+ljkapner=cox.net@leica-users.org
[mailto:lug-bounces+ljkapner=cox.net@leica-users.org] On Behalf Of
n.wajsman@chello.nl
Sent: Monday, July 12, 2004 9:44 AM
To: Leica Users Group
Subject: Re: [Leica] New Leica digital rangefinder system ? , was: new M
lens?

This is a very interesting discussion. Of course, none of us is privvy to
the discussions in Leica's marketing department, but hey, it is fun to give
our ? 0.02...

I think that Leica is in a difficult position. Lucien's point is valid; but
then the question is, if my existing M lenses are not usable with the new
digital M, then why should I stay with Leica in the first place? I agree
with BD that Epson/Cosina probably did not invest all that R&D money just to
manufacture 10,000 units, so for someone like me the RD-1 would be a better
option for a digital rangefinder than a new presumably very expensive Leica
Digital M which would also require me to buy a whole new set of (also
presumably expensive) M-digital lenses.

After all, even Nikon and Canon have made their digital SLRs so that the old
lenses can still be used, albeit with some limitations. I think what Leica
might do is something similar: make the digital M compatible with the analog
lenses but then also bring out a line of digital-only lenses which would
offer added functionality. Precedent exists even within the Leica family: I
can mount old 1-cam and 2-cam lenses on my R8/R9 but to take full advantage
of some features, I need to use the newest ROM lenses.

As for general speculation about Leica's corporate future, I have no doubt
that it will end up as a subsidiary of one of the big companies--OR they
will leave camera manufacturing altogether and become a specialized maker of
high-end lenses, which is after all where their expertise is.

Nathan
> 
> van: Lucien <director@ubi.edu>
> datum: 2004/07/12 ma PM 06:21:45 CEST
> aan: Leica Users Group <lug@leica-users.org>
> onderwerp: [Leica] New Leica digital rangefinder system ? , was: new M
lens?
> 
> 
> B. D. Colen wrote :
> 
> > IF Leica is going to survive longish term, I believe that what they 
> > need
> > to do is come out with a digital M body of some sort priced within 
> > about
> > $500 of whatever Epson produces. If they do that, they may be able to
> > capitalize on the value of the Leica name, and the huge pool of used M,
> > LTM, and Cosina lenses out there
> 
> B.D.,
> 
> I don't agree.
> 
> IF Leica want to survive, I believe they should come out with a totally 
> new digital rangefinder system.
> 
> New camera and new lenses, both designed for any CCD or CMOS  size that 
> will offer the best quality/size ratio.
> 
> New lenses designed specifically for digital, with all the contacts 
> needed for the camera to know all the information possible from the 
> lens (aperture, focal length, etc...)  and a new bayonet mount big 
> enough proportionally.
> 
> At one point in the future, sooner than later, they will have to do it.
> 
> Better to do it ASAP.
> 
> I have a lot of Leica M lenses, and I love them on an M camera for film.
> 
> But for digital I want the best Leica can offer in lens design FOR 
> DIGITAL, not for film, and a system open to the future and all the 
> possibilities softwares will offer soon, but only for pictures with 
> full exif !
> 
> The equivalent of a 35/1,4 for their future Digital M will be a 25/1,4. 
> If they want it to cover also the 35mm format for film camera, it will 
> be much to big.
> 
> On the other hand, if they want it to cover only their 1,37x sensor, 
> better to redesign everything from the beginning...
> 
> People will pay for that, and they will switch to it if they see a 
> value for the final quality of their pictures.
> 
> I don't believe in the "lot of lenses on the market" theory.
> 
> To survive, Leica need to sell new digital cameras AND new lenses, and 
> not only one camera and one ultra-wide-angle lens to current customers.
> 
> New customers knows about what a modern digital camera can offer, and 
> they will not buy a system lacking a lot of possibilities because of a 
> lens mount designed in the fifties and based itself on a screw mount 
> standardized in the thirties....
> 
> A new Ernst Leitz II should declare: we will do it from scratch and 
> make it a success.
> 
> ;-)
> 
> If Leica want to design THE rangefinder of this new century, there is 
> no other option IMO.
> 
> Now, I don't think they will do all this. But they may design later a 
> new line of digital lenses for the Digital M, covering the 1,37x format 
> only. That will give them more room for ROM contacts inside the current 
> bayonet and make smaller lenses possible. Something like the Nikon DX 
> lenses.
> 
>   At the end, the result may be similar, but it may happen to late...
> 
> There are rumors of Leica joining the Four Thirds open standard for 
> digital cameras, and other rumors of Leica designing lenses for new 
> digital bodies.
> 
> I don't believe so much in that, but only time will tell...
> 
> Lucien
> 
> _______________________________________________
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> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information
> 

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In reply to: Message from n.wajsman at chello.nl (n.wajsman@chello.nl) ([Leica] New Leica digital rangefinder system ? , was: new M lens?)