Archived posting to the Leica Users Group, 2004/07/12

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Subject: [Leica] New Leica digital rangefinder system ? , was: new M lens?
From: mipaine at comcast.net (G. Michael Paine)
Date: Mon Jul 12 10:03:03 2004
References: <20040712164359.RQLU3635.amsfep14-int.chello.nl@localhost>

I would agree. Since I've not kept up with the Epson story I wonder 
what its status is right now. Has it yet been placed on the market and 
if so what is the price? From this group I gather that no one has got 
one in their hands, yet.

There is no doubt that this is one 40 year Leica M user who would 
gladly buy the Epson body and continue the use of my M lenses.

Michael
On Jul 12, 2004, at 9:43 AM, <n.wajsman@chello.nl> wrote:

> This is a very interesting discussion. Of course, none of us is privvy 
> to the discussions in Leica's marketing department, but hey, it is fun 
> to give our ? 0.02...
>
> I think that Leica is in a difficult position. Lucien's point is 
> valid; but then the question is, if my existing M lenses are not 
> usable with the new digital M, then why should I stay with Leica in 
> the first place? I agree with BD that Epson/Cosina probably did not 
> invest all that R&D money just to manufacture 10,000 units, so for 
> someone like me the RD-1 would be a better option for a digital 
> rangefinder than a new presumably very expensive Leica Digital M which 
> would also require me to buy a whole new set of (also presumably 
> expensive) M-digital lenses.
>
> After all, even Nikon and Canon have made their digital SLRs so that 
> the old lenses can still be used, albeit with some limitations. I 
> think what Leica might do is something similar: make the digital M 
> compatible with the analog lenses but then also bring out a line of 
> digital-only lenses which would offer added functionality. Precedent 
> exists even within the Leica family: I can mount old 1-cam and 2-cam 
> lenses on my R8/R9 but to take full advantage of some features, I need 
> to use the newest ROM lenses.
>
> As for general speculation about Leica's corporate future, I have no 
> doubt that it will end up as a subsidiary of one of the big 
> companies--OR they will leave camera manufacturing altogether and 
> become a specialized maker of high-end lenses, which is after all 
> where their expertise is.
>
> Nathan
>>
>> van: Lucien <director@ubi.edu>
>> datum: 2004/07/12 ma PM 06:21:45 CEST
>> aan: Leica Users Group <lug@leica-users.org>
>> onderwerp: [Leica] New Leica digital rangefinder system ? , was: new 
>> M lens?
>>
>>
>> B. D. Colen wrote :
>>
>>> IF Leica is going to survive longish term, I believe that what they
>>> need
>>> to do is come out with a digital M body of some sort priced within
>>> about
>>> $500 of whatever Epson produces. If they do that, they may be able to
>>> capitalize on the value of the Leica name, and the huge pool of used 
>>> M,
>>> LTM, and Cosina lenses out there
>>
>> B.D.,
>>
>> I don't agree.
>>
>> IF Leica want to survive, I believe they should come out with a 
>> totally
>> new digital rangefinder system.
>>
>> New camera and new lenses, both designed for any CCD or CMOS  size 
>> that
>> will offer the best quality/size ratio.
>>
>> New lenses designed specifically for digital, with all the contacts
>> needed for the camera to know all the information possible from the
>> lens (aperture, focal length, etc...)  and a new bayonet mount big
>> enough proportionally.
>>
>> At one point in the future, sooner than later, they will have to do 
>> it.
>>
>> Better to do it ASAP.
>>
>> I have a lot of Leica M lenses, and I love them on an M camera for 
>> film.
>>
>> But for digital I want the best Leica can offer in lens design FOR
>> DIGITAL, not for film, and a system open to the future and all the
>> possibilities softwares will offer soon, but only for pictures with
>> full exif !
>>
>> The equivalent of a 35/1,4 for their future Digital M will be a 
>> 25/1,4.
>> If they want it to cover also the 35mm format for film camera, it will
>> be much to big.
>>
>> On the other hand, if they want it to cover only their 1,37x sensor,
>> better to redesign everything from the beginning...
>>
>> People will pay for that, and they will switch to it if they see a
>> value for the final quality of their pictures.
>>
>> I don't believe in the "lot of lenses on the market" theory.
>>
>> To survive, Leica need to sell new digital cameras AND new lenses, and
>> not only one camera and one ultra-wide-angle lens to current 
>> customers.
>>
>> New customers knows about what a modern digital camera can offer, and
>> they will not buy a system lacking a lot of possibilities because of a
>> lens mount designed in the fifties and based itself on a screw mount
>> standardized in the thirties....
>>
>> A new Ernst Leitz II should declare: we will do it from scratch and
>> make it a success.
>>
>> ;-)
>>
>> If Leica want to design THE rangefinder of this new century, there is
>> no other option IMO.
>>
>> Now, I don't think they will do all this. But they may design later a
>> new line of digital lenses for the Digital M, covering the 1,37x 
>> format
>> only. That will give them more room for ROM contacts inside the 
>> current
>> bayonet and make smaller lenses possible. Something like the Nikon DX
>> lenses.
>>
>>   At the end, the result may be similar, but it may happen to late...
>>
>> There are rumors of Leica joining the Four Thirds open standard for
>> digital cameras, and other rumors of Leica designing lenses for new
>> digital bodies.
>>
>> I don't believe so much in that, but only time will tell...
>>
>> Lucien
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Leica Users Group.
>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Leica Users Group.
> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information
>
>
Against stupidity the Gods themselves struggle in vain. /Schiller/



In reply to: Message from n.wajsman at chello.nl (n.wajsman@chello.nl) ([Leica] New Leica digital rangefinder system ? , was: new M lens?)