[Leica] Do not photograph fire hydrants

[bcaldwell51 at earthlink.net (Bryan Caldwell)]

Jim,

In California, the state constitution guarantees a free speech right of 
access to privately owned shopping malls. This state right was upheld 
by the U.S. Supreme Court in 1980 (Pruneyard Shopping Center v. Robins) 
and found not to violate the mall owner's First Amendment right to free 
speech or his/her federal right to not have property taken without just 
compensation. A few years ago this was limited to shopping malls only, 
not individual stores (I can't remember the case off the top of my 
head).

In the absence of such a state-created right, no one has the right to 
express themselves (which would include taking a picture) in a shopping 
mall over the objections of the owner.


On Jun 5, 2004, at 2:47 PM, Jim Shulman wrote:

> Phong,
>
> In the case of Mall Management there's another issue: the mall is 
> considered
> private property.  The courts have consistently found that, as a 
> privately
> owned public accommodation, malls largely have the right to determine 
> how
> their space is used by the public.  This can get a bit tricky.  For 
> example,
> malls cannot violate the Civil Rights Act of 1964 and ban black, 
> Jewish or
> asian shoppers, but if they wished they could insist on a dress code or
> require shoppers under a certain age to have an adult chaperone.
>
> People who go to malls choose to shop in a carefully controlled 
> environment,
> devoid of those nuisances of traditional urban public accommodations, 
> such
> as mendicants, druggies, political protesters, striking workers, 
> inclement
> weather, and (naturally) any sense of surprise.
>
> The major concern about photography comes not from terrorists, but from
> competitors.  Mall managers are very much concerned that competitors 
> will
> document things such as signage, traffic flow, consumer reactions, etc.
>
> The irony, of course, is that with the advent of camera-cum-telephones 
> there
> is no simple way for malls to monitor photography.  They wouldn't dare
> interfere with cellular phone use--especially when so many of their 
> best
> tenants thrive on cell phone sales.  Is it a call, or a photograph?  
> Hard to
> tell when the photographer isn't using a Leica!
>
> Jim Shulman
> Bryn Mawr, PA
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: lug-bounces+jshul=comcast.net@leica-users.org
> [mailto:lug-bounces+jshul=comcast.net@leica-users.org] On Behalf Of 
> Phong
> Sent: Saturday, June 05, 2004 5:29 PM
> To: Leica Users Group
> Subject: RE: [Leica] Do not photograph fire hydrants
>
> Gwpics@aol.com wrote:
>>>>>    When I  was about to shoot, a security guard showed up and told 
>>>>> me
> it
>>>>>   was not  allowed to photograph fire hydrants in the premises.
>>
>>   I really think some of you Americans have lost the plot!
>
> Indeed, very strange things happen at the mall.  :-)
>
> Actually, I think this is the Revenge of the Mall Management.
> For several years now, I have been prevented by various mall
> security types from taking photos at the mall.  I think Mall
> Management realizes that sooner or later some post-modern
> street photographers will publish photos criticizing or poking fun
> at the mall culture.   Aren't there already a whole bunch of 
> photographic
> works about modern consumerism ?  Now, mall management
> is  just using the "security" excuse to justify their inane
>  "no photography"  policy.
>
> I also think that there is a concern among merchants that people
> (say Asian) copying their merchandise and store display design.
> Perhaps hydrant design too ?  :-)
>
> And last but not least,  I believe there is a prevalent fear of law 
> suits;
> merchants and mall management (and the police, and the military)
> just don't like to have photos inadvertently showing them doing
> something wrong.  It's about security all right.  Theirs, not ours !
>
> - Phong
>
>
>
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