Archived posting to the Leica Users Group, 2004/05/26
[Author Prev] [Author Next] [Thread Prev] [Thread Next] [Author Index] [Topic Index] [Home] [Search]I find this post utter laughable for several reasons - 1. Abu Ghraid is filled with - up to 90% by several independent estimates - innocent people who were swept up off the streets of Iraq, not with people who can tell torturers where bombs are hidden. And while there are undoubtedly some very bad actors in custody, most experts agree that torture only gets the torturer the story they want - not the truth; 2. Phil rants on infinitum with this pro-Administration, pro-torture bullshit, and then has the absolute temerity to end his rant by saying, "This is a site to discuss Leica cameras, lenses and accessories and the taking of Leica pictures. Please take all criticism of our military to sites set up for that purpose says that those who take a different view should take the discussion to a military website." 3. I thought the reason that we invaded the sovereign nation of Iraq, and that we become involved in other overseas adventures, is that we are setting an example for the world; we are the good guys. Well, good guys don't torture people. Are there times when, given the "ticking bomb" scenario, the limits will be pushed in secret in individual cases? Of course. We have always done that; virtually every nation has always done that. But special cases are a far, far cry from what has quite clearly been going on in Iraq and Afghanistan. So, Phil, this is a site for discussion of things Leica and Leica related - take your pro-torture rants to www.fascistbrotherhood.com - they'll be glad to see you. B.D. -----Original Message----- From: lug-bounces+bdcolen=earthlink.net@leica-users.org [mailto:lug-bounces+bdcolen=earthlink.net@leica-users.org] On Behalf Of Philip Kokoczka Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2004 8:10 AM To: lug@leica-users.org Subject: [Leica] Susan Sontag What would you do? A group of criminals have kidnapped your wife and daughter. They are known for gang raping, torturing and killing their captives. You happen to find and capture a couple of them. They know where your wife and daughter are being held, and have told you that they have only a short time left before the raping, torturing and killing begin. What do you do to get the information where your wife and daughter are being held? If you just ask them nicely to tell you where they are being held do you think they would tell you? What length would you go to in order to get them to tell you the location at which your wife and daughter are being held? Face it folks, times have changed. The Geneva convention was written to protect the rights and dignity of military personnel captured on the battlefield, not terrorists that cut off hands for punishment, or use a wood chipper for "executions" or use poison gas on minority populations. I am getting sick and tired of hearing the ilk of Ted Kennedy and his gang trying to compare what our military did to what Sadam's henchmen did. How can you compare putting panties on someone's head with giving them a bath in nitric acid? These terrorists are out to kill you, your wife, daughters and sons. They are out to kill your way of life. They are out to impose their version of Islam on you and the rest of the non-Islamic world. What regime do you want to live under? Please, let these military people do what they can to find out where the next strike is planned. And remember that these terrorists they are watching in the Iraqi prisons are not there because they broke the speeding law or stole a candy bar from the neighborhood grocery. They are there because they are terrorists and want to kill me, my family, your family and my and your way of life. This is a site to discuss Leica cameras, lenses and accessories and the taking of Leica pictures. Please take all criticism of our military to sites set up for that purpose _________________________________________________________________ Get 200+ ad-free, high-fidelity stations and LIVE Major League Baseball Gameday Audio! http://radio.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200491ave/direct/01/ _______________________________________________ Leica Users Group. See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information