Archived posting to the Leica Users Group, 2003/12/11

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Subject: Re: [Leica] Mixed Company (was: The fine line between art and pornography)
From: Aaron Sandler <aaron.sandler@duke.edu>
Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2003 11:55:42 -0500
References: <000b01c3bf69$1bc5b940$6501a8c0@CCA4A5EF37E11E> <015101c3bf6c$0ee83ce0$3d620b44@pc> <p05111000bbfd56951af6@[192.168.123.137]>

Add me to the list of folks who always respects (and almost always agrees) 
with posts from you, Ted, but whose opinion diverges in this case.  Let me 
try to explain my perspective...

Leaving aside the photos in question, I feel it is more respectful to try 
one's best to act the same way when women are present as when they 
aren't.  Put another way, the idea that I would act in a way that would 
upset my wife if she knew what I was doing, seems to me to be extremely 
disrespectful of her and my relationship with her.  The same is true of 
women to whom I'm not married.

That's not to say I don't think it is appropriate to tailor one's 
actions/language to the situation and sensibilities of those present...if I 
know someone gets upset at cursing, I'm less likely to curse.  If I'm at a 
job interview or having dinner with my in-laws, I'm on my 
better-than-average behavior.  Etc.  However, to make that decision based 
solely on the gender of those present seems to me to be refusing to see the 
person as a _person_ but only as a woman.  That, to me, is disrespectful.

Sorry for taking this so off-topic, and I hope I haven't just added fuel to 
a mostly-dead fire, but I think the only way to be sure that the LUG is not 
an old boys' club is to ensure that everyone is welcomed as an equal.

- -Aaron

Ted Grant wrote:
>Sorry it doesn't matter whether they're naked or not, with words or not,
>it's not fit for mixed company!
<snip>
>What I really feel bad about is, this is a mixed audience of ladies, and I'd
>hope some of us are still gentlemen who look upon this kind of crap not for
>mixed company. It's called respect of a lady!
>
>I realize in this day and age too many people / men forget women are
>supposed to be treated with respect. Even if in some cases the women aren't
>bright enough to realize we are trying to be polite and respectful!

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In reply to: Message from "B. D. Colen" <bdcolen@earthlink.net> (RE: [Leica] The fine line between art and pornography)
Message from "www.geocities.com/curtisbliss" <surrealistic@cox.net> (Re: [Leica] The fine line between art and pornography)
Message from Karen Nakamura <mail@gpsy.com> (Re: [Leica] The fine line between art and pornography)