Re: [Leica] No digital comments?

[Mark Rabiner <mark@rabinergroup.com>]

Karen Nakamura wrote:
> 
> >Canon being a huge multifaceted company in which cameras are the same as
> >their paper clip budget. Leica as we know is a very small mom and
> >pop operation.
> 
> Other than from the rambling nature of your post (not sure what you
> were trying to say: are we to make this an
> any-digital-camera-goes-leica-list  or a only-digital-Leica-only
> list)... I have to address this one issue above.
> 
> I worked at Canon (well, interned) and while it's true that Canon has
> many branches, the camera-optical division is the golden child.
> Everyone aspired to work in that division and it's the one that
> people are most proud to be in. So don't disparage Canon's commitment
> to cameras just because it's a large conglomerate.
> 
> Anyway, my one and only point is that if we're going to talk about
> photos taken on non-Leica cameras, why even have a leica list? Why
> don't we all just move to the street photography list? I try my
> darned best to only talk about my Canon and Nikon rangefinders in the
> RF list; and when commenting on my C-V lenses, in the C-V list.
> 
> Karen
> 
> --
Yea I wasn't too happy when it came to pass that it was OK to talk about
Contax G2's and 1s which really aren't rangefinder cameras and I don't
feel compare to Leica at all with the cheesy AF didn't belong in the
same category.. There is a rule its OK to talk about other rangefinder
cameras. Even in medium format i don't know for sure. When the list
started if someone had a Nikon or Contax rangefinder (from the 60's or
50's) it was Hey wow! we're both on the same team here any rangefinder
person is a pal of mine They were as rare as a Texas steak. Lets hear
all about your classic rangefinder does it work?! 
Then the Cosina rangefinder going under the name of Voigtländer came out
with a lens and body which in ways didn't really compete with Leica and
they promised not to do so in the future and then did and did so in a
big way. 

People come on the list and want to get into Leica cheep. Instead of the
traditional answer which is to buy an old beater body in our Leica case
too numerous varieties to name they are advised buy one and all to buy
Cosina to get into Leica. Or they'll call it Voigtländer."You want to
shoot Leica photography? Buy that Voigtländer and lens!"  Cosina is
neither a Leica or a Voigtländer would be a logical argument. The lens
mounts are the same big deal. I've got this crazy idea in my head that
if you want to get into Leica you should get a Leica. No one agree's
with me!

Brian doesnt over-moderate the list. We kind of moderate ourselves for
the most part. People kind of know not to get on the list with yet
another in depth review of yet another digital camera. I don't feel that
about to happen. We are sharper than that. They'll show some pictures
and say a few things but not make a big deal about the off topic merch
which took it. Just the shots.  After all there ARE small Leica digital
point and shoots they could have shot this picture.

So every once and a while someones going to come on all ablaze about
their top of the line Nikon or Canon body and the marvelous lenses which
cost a fraction of what a Leica M's cost and are "I promise just as good
look at these 4x6's" and if it's too much we can delete it at the bud.
Or read it because if we're going to get into digital we'd have to wait
for our digital back to come out which is not going to be soon and when
it does in the year 2525 will it have laughable stats in comparison to
the Nikon, canon, Olympus and others which have been developing 4th 5th
6th generation bodies all along. My rough drafts are garbage as you've
already pointed out. After the 5th or 6th generation you'll think you're
reading James Joyce.

By the way i could not figure out why it was Kosher for people to come
on the list and vaguely say "look at my latest pictures" and you click
and come to pictures of the persons wife and kids taken with any camera
or format under the sun. I was amazed that was legal. I'd assume people
would show Leica pictures as it is obvious or make a big point of
pointing out ahead of time that they are showing you EOS pictures this
time only. The fact is half the people on this list shoot with about
five different systems Leica being the one they cant quite get the hang
of or trust and the odds that week of them having shot their picture du
jour with a Leica is small. If they said "only Leica pictures" it
wouldn't make me cry. People would have to learn how to use their
precious camera jewelry.
Of course the Leica list should be mainly about Leica. If not change the
name. To the "Leica and everything else" list. LAEE

I have sympathy with your positions here but as the days go by and the
list is not run exactly how I'd like it to be I still find it a
worthwhile experience being involved with it anyway; to say the least.

One position I have which did pan out for me by pure luck and i feel
grateful for is my aversion of constant Ebay chatter which has taken
over all photo talk and ebay in general. It turns out in reality you can
talk about the latest auction and the numbers and how it progressed and
how frustrating it was when at the last minute I don't know what
happened but people cant be selling their ebay stuff on the lug. So
people seem inclined to not put ebay URL's on the lug and I'm happy as a
clam about that. There is a general self moderated staying away from
ebay talk thank god I'd go nuts. And other lists seem to be emulating
us. Except their lenses are autofocus and cost a heck of a lot less. And zoom.
See the ebay thing is about buying and selling. That's more of a
collector, trader, dilettante thing than a shooter thing.
The Leica User list is people USING not collecting, trading, auctioning, dilettanting
Using means shooting. I'm a peace nut but i use the word "shooting."
Cameras don't kill people people kill people…


Mark Rabiner
Portland, Oregon USA
http://www.rabinergroup.com
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