RE: [Leica] Re: Pondering an R8

["B. D. Colen" <bdcolen@earthlink.net>]

This exchange is a perfect example of how different people can look at the
same thing and see totally different things in front of them.

It's no secret here that I use F100s along with my Ms. Unlike Rolfe, I like
the handling, like the weight, and like the performance. I have had one
problem - which was the result of a particular part being too flimsy - but
it was quickly fixed and I haven't had any quality issues since...and I try
to be careful with my equipment, but don't baby it. Having handled R8s - but
never owned one - I was not at all impressed with either the ergonomics or
the feel of the camera.

As to the 180 2.8 issue - I have an old Nikon AI 180 2.8 ED lens which I use
with the F100s. And even though it is one of the older Nikon lenses - metal
construction, etc. etc. - it is surprisingly compact and, for what it is,
surprisingly light. I can walk around with it over a should for hours at a
time without it's being a big deal.

As to the general build quality question - there is absolutely no doubt - in
my mind - that Leica's lenses hold the world crown in terms of build
quality. There is also no doubt in my mind that many of the lens in the
Nikon and Canon autofocus lines are pretty shoddy when it comes to build.
HOWEVER - the Nikon and Canon "pro" lenses tend to be quite well built and
solid - for autofocus lenses.

As to the Contax - Both the bodies and lenses appear to be quite solid.
BUT - the range of lenses is quite limited when compared to Nikon or Canon.

And, yes, the R6.2 is a neat little mechanical body.

It all comes down, once again, to what tools work for you.

And that said, I can see a day when I will dump my Nikon gear to replace it
with Canon - for the simple reason that, along with it's cement block
top-of-the-line bodies, Canon makes several cheap bodies that, for SLRs, are
virtually silent - which is important to me in the work I do. In fact, in an
environment with any kind of background noise, the new EOS Elan 7 is damn
close in noise level to an M6.

B. D>

- -----Original Message-----
From: owner-leica-users@mejac.palo-alto.ca.us
[mailto:owner-leica-users@mejac.palo-alto.ca.us]On Behalf Of Rolfe
Tessem
Sent: Tuesday, February 26, 2002 1:05 PM
To: leica-users@mejac.palo-alto.ca.us
Subject: Re: [Leica] Re: Pondering an R8


Tom Lianza wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
> At the risk of being flamed and angering a few on this group, I'd strongly
> advise against the R8.  I own one and occasionally use it, but frankly,
for
> me, it just doesn't work.  The vaunted ergonomics just don't seem to be
> there.  Put a 180mm f2.8 lens on that body and hang it around your neck
and
> you might as well have a Rollei 6000 series SLR hanging on your neck.  The
> flash automation and meter facility is nice, but frankly it is a gadget on
a
> camera that doesn't really need more gadgets.  The rear curtain sync
> adjustment is really well thought out, but again, it's a feature that is
so
> rarely used one has to question the need to bring a mechanical control to
> the front of a camera that already has a very busy front side.  The
digital
> display in mine will occasionally go hay wire when using certain lenses.
I
> find the R6 far more comfortable to use and frankly, better made.
> Naturally, Leica has discontinued that little jewel.  Leica has finally
come
> out with a zoom in the 20-35 range (I think 21 to 35 actually)  That was a
> huge missing piece in their SLR picture.  I don't believe that Leica is
> credible competitor in the current SLR market place, even if you disregard
> the Autofocus issue.
>
> I own and really enjoy Nikon SLRs but I can understand the desire for
Leica
> Glass that drives so many people on this group to the Leica SLR.  If you
> don't own Leica SLR lenses and have the typical prejudice that surrounds
> Japanese glass on this group,  I would take a look at the Contax line of
> SLR's.  The Zeiss lenses are really quite excellent ( I would hazard that
> their zoom offerings are probably better than what Leica has to offer).
My
> experience with their 85 f1.4 (many years ago) was extremely positive.  I
> have the 80 summilux for my Leica SLR's and it is a great lens, but
> certainly the Zeiss counter part is excellent.
>
> If you want an excellent partner for your M6 track down an R6.2 and use
> those great Leica Lenses.  It's interesting to note that R8's can be had a
> rather deep discount, while the R6.2's are at list or higher now that they
> have been discontinued.  The guys who sell these understand the value in
the
> market place.  I bought a NIB R8 for 1100USD on the gray market.  The
dealer
> had a 6.2 that was going to cost 1700 USD .   I would definitely NOT
> recommend buying a gray market R8 that if you are planning to rely on the
> camera for heavy use.  Electronics doesn't seem to be one of Leica's
strong
> points...


One can certainly debate the ergonomics of the R8 versus the R6.2, but
let face it, a 180mm f/2.8 lens looks and weighs pretty much the same no
matter who makes it so this kind of slam is rather unfair.

I think the R8 is a camera you either like or you don't, and it is
pretty hard to tell until you've held one and used it for a while. The
same could probably be said of the M cameras.

FWIW, I was all ready to buy a Nikon F100 to replace my aged 1970's
Nikon SLR stuff, but hated that camera once I actually had a chance to
hold one in my hands. Even the new Nikon lenses felt horribly
plastic-like compared to their older stuff. I then tried both an R8 and
an R6.2, neither of which I had considered originally. The R8 worked
better for me and is certainly no bigger or heavier than the F100 when
equipped comparably.

A quick surf of Leica dealers' web sites does not reveal to me the
pricing disparity you describe, although the imminent unavailability of
the 6.2 could be expected to affect pricing of the cameras remaining in
the pipeline. I don't know that this implies anything other than that
the law of supply and demand remains intact -- I certainly don't take it
as a negative reflection on the R8.

- --
Rolfe Tessem	|	Lucky Duck Productions, Inc.
rolfe@ldp.com	|	96 Morton Street
(212) 463-0029	|	New York, NY 10014
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