Archived posting to the Leica Users Group, 2001/12/26

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Subject: Re: [Leica] Re: [OT] Frugal for PAW...
From: Mark Rabiner <mark@markrabiner.com>
Date: Wed, 26 Dec 2001 11:12:49 -0800
References: <B84A0D33.67DD%Mail@SlideOne.com> <005001c18b68$eb5bb4c0$56631b3f@5lgcn01> <itib2u04le1iukgogtqbnhu8egegoubruf@4ax.com> <3C29EB95.4070202@earthlink.net>

"B. D. Colen" wrote:
> 
> XP2 is wonderful stuff, but based on personal experience, I'd advise
> against pushing it to 800 - you can pull it to just about anywhere you
> want, but I have found that at 800 it's just too damn tbin to be of much
> real use. Maybe it's me, but I tend not to think so.
> 
> B. D.
> 
><Snip> 

I'd advise against pulling it as well.
I don't push nor pull my ColorNeg film.
So i don't push nor pull my XP2. 
Which makes sense as it is basically with same stuff, Chromegic film
only with one layer.
My advise is treat your XP2 as thou treats your ColorNeg.
I think that because i know there are a few people how DO push and pull
their color neg and I'm not prepared to criticized their experience, it
just don't work for me or most the people i know at the color rental lab
i go to over the decades and have gotten an amazing amount of feedback
from with everyone from a variety of background trying out the same technology…
I think this because i know there are people who actually modify the C41
formula with a modified first developer and so on.

Although we think of color film processing as a craft and not an art
like in black and white there are people heavy enough into the chemistry
end to modify the formulas and procedures of E6 and C41 and I'd guess
they came up with superior results.
Rodinal for a first developer or some such thing.

When  XP1 and Agfa's version of a chromegic monochrome film came out
they both competed with each other with what an amazing innovation they
both might be.
"Shoot it at any ASA!" they said from 32 to 64000!!!!!!
Well from what everyone i knew at the color lab quickly learned was that
any over exposure at all of the stuff resulted in bulletproof negs. You
turn your enlarger light on and go have lunch and hope the bulb didn't
burn out.
Any under exposure resulted in shadow detail that was left up to the imagination.

So my advise now is to expose it at 400 at least  as carefully as you
expose black and white, probably more so.
My "zone" system for color neg is a contracted version of my black and
white zone system by one stop in either direction. I know some would disagree.
In my black and white "zone" system i feel like i get 2 stops in either
direction for detail. A five stop range.
In ColorNeg and chromegic i feel like i get one stop in either
direction: A 3 stop range.
So if i was shooting a bunch of charcoal brickets I'd stop down one if
by chromegic; two if by black and white.
A pile of white linen I'd open one if by chromegic, two if by black and white.
If my white linin was F16 and my charcoal brickets read F5.6 then one of
em's gotta go or i switch to real black and white film.
That's how i pre see it.


Mark Rabiner
Portland, Oregon USA
http://www.markrabiner.com
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In reply to: Message from John Straus <Mail@SlideOne.com> (Re: [Leica] [OT] Frugal for PAW...)
Message from "Julian Koplen" <jkoplen@mindspring.com> (Re: [Leica] [OT] Frugal for PAW...)
Message from "Eric" <ericm@pobox.com> ([Leica] Re: [OT] Frugal for PAW...)
Message from "B. D. Colen" <bdcolen@earthlink.net> (Re: [Leica] Re: [OT] Frugal for PAW...)