Archived posting to the Leica Users Group, 2000/06/06

[Author Prev] [Author Next] [Thread Prev] [Thread Next] [Author Index] [Topic Index] [Home] [Search]

Subject: [Leica] Leicaflex SL Lenses
From: Hans-Peter.Lammerich@t-online.de (Hans-Peter.Lammerich)
Date: Tue, 6 Jun 2000 18:47:22 +0200

Muhammad,

I find that since two or three years the second-hand prices of older R lenses 
are rock bottom, at least here in Germany.  In particular the new zoom, apo and 
ROM lenses made many people to upgrade their gear. Now a good three cam R 2.8/28 
(E48/Series VII), R 3.5/35-70 (E60) or R 2.8/135 (E55) can be found for around 
DM 1000, a R 2/50 for under DM 700. With two cams and serial filter mount the R 
2/50 and R 2.8/135 are in range of DM 400 and DM 700, respectively. The R 2.8/35 
or R 2.8/90 nowadays are considered as slow lenses in a not so exciting focal 
range and thus second hand prices a moderate, say DM 700 for the 35, DM 1000 for 
the 90. Two cam versions should be 30% less, but then you also get an older 
optical and mechanical design. Add the cost for a 50/2 and compare the package 
to the 2.8/35-70 apo-asph! A classic outfit, comprising a 2.8/28, a 2/50 and a 
2.8/135 will cost about DM 2700. Compare the merits of the compact and fast 
2.8/135 with the current zoom alternatives, the slow 4/80-200 or the heavy 
2.8/70-180!

Quality fanatics have traded their Apo-Telyts R 3.4/180 for the new model, so 
dealers sit on large numbers of them.  Asking prices are in between DM 2000 and 
DM 2500, but some negotiation will certainly yield a lower price. I saw a two 
cam R 3.4/180 for under DM 2000! But I should remark that according to 
statements from Erwin Puts and others, the 3.4/180's actual performance is not 
up its reputation which evolved 25 years ago. 

Most of the first generation R 2.8/180 and R 4/250 (Series VII filter) are 
available as three-cam lenses anyway, either factory fitted or converted by the 
previous owners.  Prices are as low as DM 1000, but consider their poor close 
focussing capability (app. 2.5m for the 180)  and that they are considerably 
heavier and bulkier than the more expensive (DM 2000 to DM 2400) second 
generation (E67 filter thread).

For macro work everybody wants the R 2.8/100 apo, so go for the R 4/100, either 
the lens head with focussing bellows or the discontinued version with focussing 
helical which would be a better general purpose lens! I however remember an old 
test in the German "FotoMagazin", saying that the 4/100 was inferior to its 
contemporary Japanese competitors (low contrast).  It was indeed the last 
traditional, four lens Elmar design in Leica's range of lenses! If stopped down 
for adequate depth-of-field at close range, the actual difference in optical 
performance between the R 2.8/100 apo and the R 4/100 may not be so great 
anymore. On the other hand the R 4/100 has one clear advantage over its "apo" 
rival: distance from front lens to subject! Even the R 2.8/60 is better than the 
R 2.8/100 apo in this respect. Take note that there are different macro or 1:1 
adapters. There are dedicated adapters only for use with either the 2.8/60 (1:1 
adapter) or the 4/100 (1:1.6 adapter), available in two and three cam version. 
For use with R3-8 bodies there is "macro adapter" for all R lenses, with and 
without ROM chip. 

The non-apo extender 2x also is available in a version for Leica R3-8 and for 
SL/SL2 with the latter being more rare and expensive. In this context I would 
like to know how a 2.8/60 plus non-apo extender 2x compares to the 2.8/100, 
4/100 or 2.8/60 with macro or 1:1 adapter?

If you really want the option to use the lenses on a Leica R later, it is 
cheaper to go for three cam lenses now. A conversion is possible, but is 
certainly more expensive than the price differential. A conversion would make 
sense if you already own the lenses, but do not want to trade them against 
lenses of unknown origin or technical condition. Another aspect are lens hoods 
filter threads. Newer lenses in the 28mm to 50mm range have built-in, 
retractable hoods, older lenses have larger clip-on hoods. Newer lenses have 
standard filter threads (E55, E67 etc.), older lenses un-threaded "serial" 
filters. To reduce cost note after the introduction of the R3, Leica omitted the 
Leicaflex/SL cams on some lenses in the 35mm to 90mm range. With the exception 
of the R 1.4/80, a conversion is possible, but expensive. 

Older Leica lenses are of course outperformed by the current Leica lens designs, 
but offer the same, if not better mechanical built quality and "feel" at greatly 
reduced cost. After all, its time to buy!

Hans-Peter

Replies: Reply from "Bud Cook" <budcook@attglobal.net> (Re: [Leica] Leicaflex SL Lenses)